Brexit - Economic impact?

CLAPTON

BobQ wrote: »

Neither do I. You seem to keep assuming what you think people mean.:)

fair enough

I just didn't immediately understand your reference to bankers bonus when discussing the brexit debate and democracy.

Tromking

orcocan wrote: »

suddenly so many brits so worried about the EU not being democratic enough, where are they when they're called to vote for the european parliament? It's all about immigration and a not-so-veiled sense of being superior to all these 'bloody foreigners'. At least if they were honest about it...

Perhaps more Brits are realising that a faux Parliament increasingly dominated by the far right is not worth bothering with. You are right to flag up our antipathy to European institutions, a leave victory would be probably be a direct manifestation of that antipathy.
If UK citizens have never fully embraced the project, whose fault is that, the EU, UK politicians or maybe perhaps just ourselves?

PixelPound

BobQ wrote: »

Even some on the out side agree that there WILL be a short term impact on the economy. They just cannot agree how long it will last.

A lot of things can have impact on the economy, like Greece defaulting.

BobQ wrote: »

If you believe that it does not matter if the economy is affected in the short term, then being told the negative impacts could be seen as peddling fear. But that does not mean that what they say is not true. If I tell you that the cliff edge you are standing on is unsafe, am I peddling fear or helping you?

It depends if you say its unsafe or say whole swathes of the cliff could suddenly give way, meaning certain death or at least critical injuries if you stand within ten feet of the edge. The Remain campaign are peddling worst case scenarios as highly likely. Mind you the Leave campaign also do the same.

BobQ wrote: »

But you can vote for change. You can change your national government, so you can change your decision maker at the Council of Ministers. You can change your MEP and so change our position in the EU parliament. I agree that you cannot ensure that the UK is always on the right side of the argument in an EU decision, but can you guarantee that in the UK Parliament either. Calling the EU anti-democratic is absurd if you believe your view is the only one that matters. Besides the UK Parliament retains competence to decide on most areas of policy.

A 90 second clip on how the EU parliament works http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23465822 . The Leave campaign often go unchecked when they go on about it being undemocratic, which is why the Remain need to have a succinct statement that states how it works to show it is democratic. Mind you it seems the Leave campaign are focusing on "taking back control" from the EU parliament, though the same lot probably object to devolving power to English regions to give them the same standing as Scotland or Wales.

BobQ wrote: »

Patriotism is a love of one's country, which sometimes means telling people that they are in danger of making a mistake.

PixelPound

Tromking wrote: »

Perhaps more Brits are realising that a faux Parliament increasingly dominated by the far right is not worth bothering with. You are right to flag up our antipathy to European institutions, a leave victory would be probably be a direct manifestation of that antipathy.
If UK citizens have never fully embraced the project, whose fault is that, the EU, UK politicians or maybe perhaps just ourselves?

Its probably more that many don't understand how it works or see it as relevant to them, just as you will get some who don't bother voting in general elections bemoaning the problems getting medically treated or amount of tax/benefits they get and don't see the correlation. You could say UK citizens don't fully embrace our own parliament. When you are relying on the populous to choose then if you simply say its up to them to find stuff out do you wonder why apathy is like it is.
Its like saying there are vast swathes of knowledge about all subjects available on the internet, so maybe we should shut down all schools and simply ensure every family has access to a computer - if kids want to learn, its out there.

Filo25

Sterling continuing to show a lot of weakness and the prospect of Brexit appears to now be weighing on global stock markets.

None of those situations seem to point to the market having the same level of confidence in the economic outlook if we vote to Leave as the Leave camp has.

Finally seeing the betting markets moving over the weekend as well now, odds on Leave down to 2.86 now, which still seems to understate the likelihood of a Leave vote to me.

Generali

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The UK is burdened with a high level of personal debt amongst other issues. But don't let that fog your view. Wealth transfer to the few has increased in Europe as a whole to the detriment of the majority.

That's just a function of low interest rates. Low interest rates push up the price of yielding assets and rich people hold a lot more assets than poor people by definition.

As interest rates normalise so will relative levels of wealth.

Moby

orcocan wrote: »

suddenly so many brits so worried about the EU not being democratic enough, where are they when they're called to vote for the european parliament? It's all about immigration and a not-so-veiled sense of being superior to all these 'bloody foreigners'. At least if they were honest about it...

So true. Its also amazing how many Brexiteers have suddenly come round to the conclusion that the working man is victim of the power of the elite. Of course they are only too happy to vote for this elite in a general election.

Moby

Tromking wrote: »

Perhaps more Brits are realising that a faux Parliament increasingly dominated by the far right is not worth bothering with. You are right to flag up our antipathy to European institutions, a leave victory would be probably be a direct manifestation of that antipathy.
If UK citizens have never fully embraced the project, whose fault is that, the EU, UK politicians or maybe perhaps just ourselves?

....but it'll be from the frying pan into the fire imo. Brexit will result in a permanent right of centre Govmt in the UK. Then Scotland will have a new referendum and probably gain their own Brexit.......Id say give it 10 Years!

CLAPTON

Tromking wrote: »

Perhaps more Brits are realising that a faux Parliament increasingly dominated by the far right is not worth bothering with. You are right to flag up our antipathy to European institutions, a leave victory would be probably be a direct manifestation of that antipathy.
If UK citizens have never fully embraced the project, whose fault is that, the EU, UK politicians or maybe perhaps just ourselves?

The make up of the UK parliament is determined by the UK voters.
That is democracy even if you don't agree with the result.
If more and more people are agreeing with you then the parliament will swing to the left.

Replacing, what you claim is a right wing elite, by a european elite seems a step backwards. It is possible (not certain) that we will soon see fascist parties in the EU parliament making laws for the UK.

The reason the people of the UK haven't embraced the EU is because it is a deeply flawed system which will eventually fail or lead to disaster.

mrginge

Moby wrote: »

....but it'll be from the frying pan into the fire imo. Brexit will result in a permanent right of centre Govmt in the UK. Then Scotland will have a new referendum and probably gain their own Brexit.......Id say give it 10 Years!

If the people of Britain vote for a permanent right of centre govt, why are you against Britain having a permanent right of centre govt?

Have you chucked the towel in on your ambitions of power like the rest of the left wingers?

If the EU was dominated by right of centre parties, and the U.K. had a left wing govt who had no voice in the EU, would you be banging the drum for a brexit so that we could implement policies more to your liking?
Or is it just that you don't like anything right of centre?