The EU: IN or OUT?

Ballard

aspiration wrote: »

I beg to differ. Maybe a few brexiters wanted all out. But most knew it will be unfair to ask them to leave. Most know we need immigrants - qualified ones with a good knowledge of the English language. Even Nigel Farage talked about quality tier one immigrants. We do not need whole town loads of ordinary people landing here and asking for benefits and English language coaching. Quite a lot of older people as well - having not paid taxes and NI. Not many Brits go and live and work in Eastern Europe.

I can only speak from experience but all but one of the people I've spoken to want 'the Poles' to go back home. This is a small sample of around a dozen friends/relations/acquaintances so isn't likely to be representative of the population as a whole.

The second reason is that they want their democracy back but this is the first time that at least half of this number have voted and, quite frankly, it's likely to be their last.

atush

Rollinghome wrote: »

Ah, so it was another one of those dratted foreigners that caused it all. Nothing to do with Cameron's wizard wheeze to help win an election then? That's a relief.

It was no wizard wheeze, it was a pledge that he stuck to.

Rollinghome

atush wrote: »

It was no wizard wheeze, it was a pledge that he stuck to.

You're right. It wasn't so wizard in the end was it and certainly not what he intended.

atush

I beg to differ, as others say here, I find that many do/did think that the immigrants currently here will have to go (and no doubt some might go voluntarily, who knows).

And EU immigrants pay more in taxes than they take in benefits. According to the latest statistics available.

atush

Rollinghome wrote: »

You're right. It wasn't so wizard in the end was it and certainly not what he intended.

It wasnt wizard as it was what others in his party and around the country asked for. He might not been elected, nor the vote ever happened if not.

And sure it wasnt what he intended (or wanted or wished). But he did the decent thing. Too bad JC cant do the same.

Now we have to get on with it.

atush

BananaRepublic wrote: »

I can see that unified regulations for electronic products sold within the EU makes sense, safety laws for example. But I think the EU controls the nature of products we sell outside the EU, and also has a say 'social' laws, such as human rights, including deportation of criminals. I can't see why they have to have a say in our laws outside of regulations for intra-EU trade.

If only it had remained that way.

Hopefully we can keep the good regulations, and get rid of the bad/useless/harmful. Something for the Dept of Brexit.

bigadaj

aspiration wrote: »

I beg to differ. Maybe a few brexiters wanted all out. But most knew it will be unfair to ask them to leave. Most know we need immigrants - qualified ones with a good knowledge of the English language. Even Nigel Farage talked about quality tier one immigrants. We do not need whole town loads of ordinary people landing here and asking for benefits and English language coaching. Quite a lot of older people as well - having not paid taxes and NI. Not many Brits go and live and work in Eastern Europe.

There's two strands to this, one is educated and experienced people but many immigrants are happily doing the jobs that none of the natives are prepared to do, being Mrs farage being one of the most unpleasant no doubt.

Joking aside there are huge numbers of jobs that British people would have to do, there's no doubt many Brits are managing to avoid doing low level work because the difference from benefits is low financially speaking.

aspiration_2

atush wrote: »

And EU immigrants pay more in taxes than they take in benefits. According to the latest statistics available.

Here we go! Bogus statistics! I have seen 2Billion to 20 Billion quoted as the amount generated by EU migrants. Undoubtedly some would have contributed. How do you factor-in, in pounds, the loss of our children not being able to buy houses? Value in pounds for delays and queues?

If you actually believe more the better, then you should demand May to let in 100 million immigrants.

BananaRepublic

masonic wrote: »

There are also discrepancies between previously made projections and observations that bring into question whether there has been an overestimation of the climate's sensitivity to the man made drivers of climate change. This is still being hotly debated (if you pardon the pun).

There is no dispute among scientists that CO2 levels are rising (and that this is in proportion to man made emissions), nor that CO2 is a greenhouse gas (and we have direct evidence from satellites trained on the Earth measuring changes to our IR emission spectrum that show heat is being trapped), nor even that global temperatures have been rising sharply over the last few decades. But that seems to be where the consensus ends. There are things that will ordinarily cause global temperatures to change. Decoupling those from the gross change is problematic.

This article highlights a lot of the conjecture and itself concludes that much of it is unfounded. However, this is still a matter of debate.

I'm not quite sure what you were arguing with from my earlier post, since you seem to agree with much of it. There is a concensus that manmade global warming is taking place, but there is uncertainty over the precise effects, due to feedback mechanisms for example. The so-called deniers - or sceptics if you prefer - tend to seize on the fact that scientists are not in agreement as to the details of future warming to indicate that they are not agreed on man made global warming.

Rollinghome

atush wrote: »

It wasnt wizard as it was what others in his party and around the country asked for. He might not been elected, nor the vote ever happened if not.

And sure it wasnt what he intended (or wanted or wished). But he did the decent thing. Too bad JC cant do the same.

Now we have to get on with it.

With Ukip and the swivel-eyed loons in his party breathing down his neck, he gave a cynical promise on the assumption that he wouldn't win a majority - in which case if there were a coalition he would blame the LibDems for not implementing it or embarrass a Labour government if they had won.

Like most of the decisions he and Osborne made, they were for short-term tactical party political advantage to maintain power rather than for the benefit of Britain. It was bound to end in tears eventually. The causes and origins of the anti-UK nationalism in Scotland has many similarities to the anti-EU ukip nationalism in England and Wales. Possibly the most inept and damaging administration in our life times, and that's quite an achievement.

As you say, now we have to get on with it, hope the union somehow holds together, and that someone more capable can sort it out. I'm afraid your blaming their short-comings on Johnnie foreigner really doesn't wash.