The EU: IN or OUT?

savings_my_hobby

masonic wrote: »

Voting to join as a new member today would mean joining the single currency, so I don't think a referendum would even be needed.

.

If we had never joined the EU we would have never had the ERM disaster (prelude to joining the single currency) we would be hearing the old lies that Britain will be left behind if we don't join the Euro.

If there was a referendum to join the EU (and with it the Euro) before the crash we would have been led into even worse economic chaos than what Brexit would ever cause, Ironically it would have been supported by the "experts" who want remain.

Irony or incompetence?


Not sure we can be so certain about the free movement of people, If Britain was not a member of the EU,the EU would have been denied of one of it's top financial contributors for the last 40 years, so one could argue we would be such an asset we could of got a better deal than we have now, certainly better than the Cameron came back with.

Without 12 years of uncontrolled mass immigration we would have also been in a better position to help the refugees from Syria, which could have been in lieu of accepting free movement of people - lets not forget how desperate the situation was last year and how poor the EU response was.

When we consider the deal Turkey got just for doing what a fellow NATO member ought to have done in the first place, stopping the flow of (potential) terrorists posing a security threat to Europe, then Britain would have had a strong hand indeed.

savings_my_hobby

bigadaj wrote: »

Interesting points but joining now wouldn't necessarily also mean taking on the euro, Scandinavia as well as Eastern Europe haven't joined the single currency so far.

I think all "new" member states are required to join the Euro.

If you are tied into the currency you cannot easily leave, hence why this is a crucial requirement for entry and let's face it, there are no more assets left to join only liabilities, after all which european country could join today and provide a positive financial contribution?

Only Britain and Denmark could realistically and safely leave the EU.

LoveLifeAgain

maxie014 wrote: »

Out of interest,imagine the uk had never joined the eu,if it was a vote to enter the eu as things stand today,how many of us would be voting to join on june 23rd?

This is one of the best arguments I have heard so far without emphasising either side and it was Ian Botham who said it I believe.

blutto

Sky news Tv man for politics was CLEARLY biased last night with what seemed to me a biast audience yet again like with the BBC last year with Nigel Farage! :mad:

Ok ,political journalists have to show non biast but old Faisal Islam clearly looked like he is for remain and was constantly interrupting Gove and being more in attack mode than with Cameron last night!

Old Faisal Islam was trying to "make a name for himself " > i want to be The New Jerry Paxman ,?I felt ? Also that awful white woman with those. Snake eyes rude all the time with silly little noises she kept making whilst Gove spoke ! Gove quite impressed me actually ,knows his stiff ! Though that stupid white and her quim noises from her little podium ,god!!!!! Whokept interrupting with stupid little rushed interruptions whist he was speaking too!

Why these media people just cannot let an interviewee just finish what their saying before criticising the individual is beyond me it's just plain rude! Whether one agrees or not its just a rowdy noise instead of factual programme making.

Also being German but British born, i am voting OUT for Financial reasons rather than Sovereignty .My be as ,cheaper house prices and most important stop the tide of dumbing down in every shape and form in Uk life,ie the .lower labour cost "the master plan of multinationals" !

Why Gove did not mention putting tariffs on other countries if they did the dirty is a missed opportunity to stop the scare tactics of "Project fear Remain" !
Germany has too much too loose with UK interested and its markets here so it's all pathetic the lies of remain!

Also in 2004 Labour Party master plan was too flood Britain with the hope it could change the electoral map of the Uk to guarantee Labour Government as the indigenous population is dying out ,lower birth rate and the Tory vote will drop,thus guaranteed Labour,socialism. Many immigrants who settle here tend to vote Labour,not sure why as there are many wealthy Asians in the Uk though few vote Tory? Maybe it's the old proverb " bring the family over and knock out the kids" ? a saying I have heard a lot in pubs over the years. Though with 3rd generation and Sikh types they tend to be shifting to the right politically,wise as well with investments.

Lower standards and feed the rich,thatsthe EU! :T

blutto

Also what people voted for on the 1970's is nothing compared to what the EU is today! It was suppose to be a a free trade community not a federal union governed by the 'Franco,German alliance"!

I would vote remain if I thought things could be changed but they will not due to all those left wing governments and of course all the new East Europeans countries that want to benefit from Germany's money hoping to keep the dream alive of a socialist superstate Europe! Long live the red flag ,a new Soviet Union in disguise but run by MultiNationals to enslave you!


Though hey Kinnock's laughing all the way to the bank just like old Tony Blair!

Kinnock's and his wife millions thanks to the Eu for jack !!!!!

They think all people are mugs. Trouble is they and many others are getting away with it!

Also all those luvvies can !!!! off with their EU stance,what do they now with their West London dinner parties and living with the fairies!
Clarkson,sellout,Chiiping Norton set,got keep pal Cameron happy! Think Clarkson just wants to be a Jerry like me as he hates British cars as always upping the Germans.So Jerry I am the Jerry not you,your Yorkshire I believe!

Haha.

blutto

Oh yes Corbyn,what a laugh! :rotfl:

This guy for 40 years has opposed Europe and the Eu and now he loves it only because of workers rights! Well come on he is just being handcuffed by the Labour Party position,he is an outer for sure!

Question time the most biased BBC agenda driven programme ever had one Labour bloke on the show the other night who is the first Labour man I have seen on TV talking some sense! Think he was a known Blairite ,cannot recall his name but was old chap,that's what Labour need,elequent with his words and truthful I thought.

Lastly Remain keep saying a 'leap into the dark' I say a GIANT Leap 'into the light' ! Don't believe elitist's! They are only in it for themselves and ofcourse they depend upon the Eu existing o keep their 'job worth jobs' !

I was hoping the BBC would loose the licence fee due to its bast stance on everything.i hardly watch it?Rt news Al Jeezera is MUCH more informing and not biast!

It will be a close vote but the young would be better off out as ,dumbing down standards and pay! :T

masonic

savings_my_hobby wrote: »

If we had never joined the EU we would have never had the ERM disaster (prelude to joining the single currency) we would be hearing the old lies that Britain will be left behind if we don't join the Euro.

If there was a referendum to join the EU (and with it the Euro) before the crash we would have been led into even worse economic chaos than what Brexit would ever cause, Ironically it would have been supported by the "experts" who want remain.

Irony or incompetence?

The original ERM was set up in 1979 and at that time the UK was not willing to join it. Opposition continued right up until late 1990. The Maastricht treaty was signed by those willing to join the Euro at that time in the spring before Black Wednesday. By that time, it would have been very clear that German economic policy was putting too much undue strain on other members to consider a currency union. It wasn't just the UK that suffered due to the ERM and the problems started from the beginning of the decade. It would have been clear to anyone observing what was happening in Europe that the UK had a lucky escape from the ERM. All of the subsequent issues created by the single currency would have played out in more or less the same way, so I'm not really seeing a point in time where joining the Euro would have looked like a good idea. Denmark didn't crash out of the ERM and it seems to have maintained its scepticism.

So I think any referendum on joining the EU and with it the Euro, would have still come with the benefit of hindsight of those events. I therefore remain unconvinced that many who currently oppose joining the single currency would have been in favour of it if we hadn't ourselves been involved in early EU membership and adoption of the ERM.

Not sure we can be so certain about the free movement of people, If Britain was not a member of the EU,the EU would have been denied of one of it's top financial contributors for the last 40 years, so one could argue we would be such an asset we could of got a better deal than we have now, certainly better than the Cameron came back with.

We can't be sure of anything. We can only speculate wildly about what might have been. Perhaps we could have got a better deal than Cameron came back with. Cameron is essentially in favour of the status quo. Not the best person to be negotiating.

Without 12 years of uncontrolled mass immigration we would have also been in a better position to help the refugees from Syria, which could have been in lieu of accepting free movement of people - lets not forget how desperate the situation was last year and how poor the EU response was.

When we consider the deal Turkey got just for doing what a fellow NATO member ought to have done in the first place, stopping the flow of (potential) terrorists posing a security threat to Europe, then Britain would have had a strong hand indeed.

I'm not sure things would have been so different. Despite "12 years of uncontrolled mass immigration", unemployment is at record lows. Without that immigration, presumably the UK would have been in a similar state, but with a smaller economy owing to fewer jobs having been created and filled by the immigrants. No doubt there would have been even less house building going on as demand would have been lower, and given that most immigration has occurred from countries where we are able to exert controls, the overall effect is not likely to be very significant in any case.

atush

What is biast?

kingrulzuk

If we vote OUT we will suffer for few years but things will be good for our children’s and our grandchildren’s.
If we vote IN everything will be the same for now but years from now our children’s and our grandchildren’s will suffer.

So what do we do?

blutto

kingrulzuk wrote: »

If we vote OUT we will suffer for few years but things will be good for our children’s and our grandchildren’s.
If we vote IN everything will be the same for now but years from now our children’s and our grandchildren’s will suffer.

So what do we do?

Look its all ProjectvFear , Nobody knows what will happen a year from now whether in or out! The one true fact is > where not in TOTAL control and emphasize > Control! :eek:

All these overpaid so- called financial experts have got it wrong all the time and the organisations like the world bank and and the rest of them like Governor of the Bank of England are biast for in as their jobs depend on it! As said 'jobsworths' the lot of them!

Mervyn king the former Govenor is an silent outie but will not. Come out? James Dyson is an outie but has gone all silent as he depends on Italian engineers it seems! Also Richard Branson I think is in favour as his business is Travel....right so it benefits him ,dah!

Lastly all these celebrities waltz-in,who gives a !!!! what they think,most of them cannot spell their names,especially these actor types again living in a different world sinking in money and away with the faires and reality!


Please everyone in the UK so not vote a certain way because Joey Essex or the likes say IN or out! Use your own mind please!