Victim blaming mentality

Guest101

silverwhistle wrote: »

Depends on context. If a defence lawyer on a rape charge or a judge used the argument against me I'd be livid and it would be victim blaming (or if my jeans were too tight etc. etc.).

If practical advice is backed by help with the taxi fare, then fine, otherwise I'm afraid that as advice it's as useless as saying don't go out unless you can afford a taxi home.

Well of course, everything depends on the context, which is why I gave two versions of a conversation.


It's not reasonable to say: you deserved to be raped because you were wearing tight jeans.


It's reasonable to say: Avoid this area at night, it's dangerous. If you ignore that advice, you must accept 'some' responsibility for putting yourself in danger. The attacker is still a rapist, they still deserve to go to prison (or worse). I'm not defending them. I'm saying you knew there was a risk and you ignored it. Taking ownership of your own safety is a normal thing to do.


I totally disagree with your second paragraph. Stop relying on other people to ensure your own life. No-one should pay for your taxi home, except you. I actually agree with the statement - don't go out unless you can make the best effort to ensure you get yourself home safely. Whether that's a taxi, or arranging a lift, walking in a group. Whatever. It's your life, protect it.

Tiddlywinks

pickledonionspaceraider wrote: »

The thing that actually prompted my OP was in part due to a news website yesterday.

There was a news article about a poor guy who had a severe peanut allergy. He had ordered a take away and let them know he was peanut allergic and not to put any in his meal. Unfortunately his request was not adhered to, and he died later that night, on his own, on his bathroom floor

Many people were saying it was his own fault. I felt moved to tears of the nasty messages that were being typed ref this news article, because the guys family would have been able to read them

These people deliberately wanted to make the families pain worse. They just had to get their tuppence worth in.

I really do struggle with understanding how some people take things so personally.

Moved to tears? I think that is an overly emotional response to strangers writing about other strangers that you do now know personally.

It's this kind of personal 'investment' that makes people emotional when they actually would be better remaining impartial.

Do you really believe those posters on that thread 'deliberately wanted to make the family's pain worse'?

I think it's far more likely that they were just the usual keyboard warriors who like to exercise their muscle and say something controversial.

Your assumption that it was a personal attack on the family says more about your mindset than those posters. They were just being casual and thoughtless in their responses - which is perfectly allowed by the forum - BUT you have chosen to read something extra into their words and made them personal.

That's the problem with a public forum - it attracts all sorts of people.

Had I read any offensive comments about this tragic incident I would either report the comments (if I felt it warranted it) and let the forum team make the call or I'd move on after maybe just voicing my disgust.

Starting a whole thread without being specific at the start is just attention seeking and passive aggressive.

Before you accuse me of being offensive, I'd judge my post as blunt and to the point.

fierystormcloud

What amazes me is how some people - on message forums AND in real life - seem to think that them 'telling it like it is' and being blunt and 'to the point' is some kind of positive trait.

It isn't.

pigpen

but lying is??


hear written words.. no.. I do not have that ability yet.

Tiddlywinks

fierystormcloud wrote: »

What amazes me is how some people - on message forums AND in real life - seem to think that them 'telling it like it is' and being blunt and 'to the point' is some kind of positive trait.

It isn't.

Actually it is a positive trait... as long as the truth is not laced with insinuation etc. Simple facts speak for themselves.

What else would you suggest people do? Lie?

Just because something factual and to the point is difficult to accept does not make it wrong. It just makes it unpalatable... and therein lies the problem. Sometimes the truth hurts.

fierystormcloud

pigpen wrote: »

but lying is??


hear written words.. no.. I do not have that ability yet.

I didn't say LIE to people did I?!

NO I did not.

fierystormcloud

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

Actually it is a positive trait... as long as the truth is not laced with insinuation etc. Simple facts speak for themselves.

What else would you suggest people do? Lie?

Just because something factual and to the point is difficult to accept does not make it wrong. It just makes it unpalatable... and therein lies the problem. Sometimes the truth hurts.

No, being mean and brutal is NOT a positive trait.

It's not.

Fact.

You can tell someone the truth without being mean and nasty and spiteful.

And YOU can stop putting words into my mouth too!

I never said lie to people!

Tiddlywinks

fierystormcloud wrote: »

No, being mean and brutal is NOT a positive trait.

It's not.

Fact.

You can tell someone the truth without being mean and nasty and spiteful.

And YOU can stop putting words into my mouth too!

I never said lie to people!

Mean, nasty and spiteful? Where have you picked that up from?

There it is again - someone placing their own insinuations onto very innocent comments.

Why does 'blunt and to the point' have to be negative?

Andypandyboy

The words "victim blaming" are emotive. Things happen to people, sometimes bad things, that is life.

To me, a "victim" is someone who has had a crime happen to them, not someone who writes a thread on a forum and gets replies in a tone they don't like or replies which ask questions they would rather not answer.

It devalues the term to use it in that way.

Posters are often orchestrators of their own problems, and it is often very apparent to the casual reader with no horse in the race. To deny that and simply make sympathetic noises is not helpful or truthful.

There is no need to be rude, but honesty is often misconstrued that way. Even victims of crime often need to take responsibility for their part in the way the event plays out. If you leave your front door open, you are putting opportunity in the way of the thief, ditto, walking home down a lonely, unlit path late at night. The person who commits the crime bears ultimate responsibility of course, but the victims made it easy for them.

A forum has a cross section of society and they post accordingly, if you really can't handle that it may not be wise to post emotive subjects, or subjects that are too close to home for you to cope with them being dissected.

Pollycat

fierystormcloud wrote: »

What amazes me is how some people - on message forums AND in real life - seem to think that them 'telling it like it is' and being blunt and 'to the point' is some kind of positive trait.

It isn't.

fierystormcloud wrote: »

No, being mean and brutal is NOT a positive trait.

It's not.

Fact.

You can tell someone the truth without being mean and nasty and spiteful.

And YOU can stop putting words into my mouth too!

I never said lie to people!

Like Tiddlywinks, I too would like to know why 'mean', 'nasty' and 'spiteful' has popped into the thread.

Like Tiddlywinks and pigpen, I see no point in saying 'there, there, it'll all work out OK' if it won't.

Nor do I see the benefit of telling someone they're in the right if they are clearly not.