Will Brexit lead to mass deportations?

Filo25

The honest answer to the original question, is surely simply that nobody knows what the UK would look like under a Brexit vote.

There hasn't been much clarity on the issue, which is a shame for both sides of the debate I think, but we must continue on the fiction that Cameron will remain in charge if he loses, I suppose!

Andy_L

ciaccino wrote: »

I'd have thought, for example, that those who have acquired permanent residence status, i.e. exercising treaty rights for 5 years, would have been immune. However, according to the article I linked and I imagine very few have read, their status come from the application of the European directive 2003/109, therefore any European state can declare that inapplicable in case of Brexit.

I'd of thought that 5 years residence as an EU citizen would just read across as 5 years legal residence. IIRC the ECHR forbids the "back dating" of illegality so they cant make that residence retrospectively illegal.

Just as well leaving is a 2 year divorce process rather than on overnight event.

Moby

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Can't agree with that.

NATO doesn't exist then? If you asked Putin which he was more concerned with it would be NATO. The EU is not a defense mechanism. If NATO didn't exist and Russia invaded Estonia - can you show me the EU directive which states if one of us is attacked we're all attacked?

It's not either/or. NATO is the military alliance and the EU provides the political glue. Many of the countries in the EU are also in NATO......that is a good thing! The main protagonists re. war in Europe are France and Germany. The emergence of the EU has provided the answer for that continual problem. Wars don't happen in isolation ....they come out of economic and political competition. The EU was created to deal with that. To me people are expecting too much from it. It is still developing and it clearly needs to be more accountable, less bureaucratic etc......but look at European history.....war after war after war.....it's actually not doing too badly when that historical perspective is considered. The days of the nation state are numbered, federation is the answer imo.

Ironically I think what happened is that we screwed it up because in an attempt to water down the French German alliance at the heart of the EU we actively promoted expansion eastwards, failing to consider the new member states were not ready economically, politically, culturally etc.....that's come back to bite us big time! It was all too fast, the EU was best when it was France Germany Benelux, Italy, Spain and us

Andy_L

DTDfanBoy wrote: »

I can't speak for the rest of Europe but EU citizens in the UK aren't eligible for leave to remain as things stand at present, the immigration rules currently don't apply to them so they haven't been granted the leave to enter the UK which is necessary for Inedfinate Leave to Remain to be granted.

They can apply for permanent residence under the 5 year criteria. They just don't need to bother so generally don't spend the time, effort & £65 cost.

DTDfanBoy

Andy_L wrote: »

They can apply for permanent residence under the 5 year criteria. They just don't need to bother so generally don't spend the time, effort & £65 cost.

That right comes from EU regulation, there is no current provision that enables EU citizens to make applications under the UK immigration rules.

[Deleted User]

DTDfanBoy wrote: »

That right comes from EU regulation, there is no current provision that enables EU citizens to make applications under the UK immigration rules.

Yes, there is. It's the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/1003/made

Revised version 2014:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/1003/pdfs/uksi_20061003_301114_en.pdf

DTDfanBoy

ciaccino wrote: »

Yes, there is. It's the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/1003/made

Revised version 2014:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/1003/pdfs/uksi_20061003_301114_en.pdf

That is legislation specifically written to enforce Directive 2004/38/EC, it overrides the UK's existing immigration rules, for obvious reasons a Brexit will eventually mean that EU regulations can be ignored by the UK and the UK immigration rules can be applied to EU citizens.

To quote the actual Immigration Rules

Home_Office wrote: »

5.Save where expressly indicated, these Rules do not apply to those persons who are entitled to enter or remain in the United Kingdom by virtue of the provisions of the 2006 EEA Regulations. But any person who is not entitled to rely on the provisions of those Regulations is covered by these Rules.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules

Thrugelmir

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Can't agree with that.

NATO doesn't exist then? If you asked Putin which he was more concerned with it would be NATO. The EU is not a defense mechanism. If NATO didn't exist and Russia invaded Estonia - can you show me the EU directive which states if one of us is attacked we're all attacked?

Doesn't have to attack. Along with it's neighbours. Majority of population is Russian. All that's required is a revolution by the people themselves. Then the tanks can roll over the border whenever they like.

BobQ

Sapphire wrote: »

I'm not against alliances on some issues as necessary, but the EU is authoritarian and could easily slide into totalitarianism (judging by human history) without us being able to vote on the matter at all. That I do not wish to see. We are part of NATO, and don't need to be in the EU for security purposes.

I'm also completely against the fact that the remain campaign is backed by financiers of the ilk of Goldman Sachs (even in the person of the Bank of England governor!). It is in their interests for the wages of working people to be ever lower, and the EU is one of the tools that is achieving that. It's already visible in the pay of working people in Britain…

This is getting silly. Do you really think that if the EU were to "slide" into totalitarianism as you say we would not notice. We could exit the EU at any time in the future. Even if I were to indulge your paranoia, it is not the EU that would slide but some of the nations within it. By remaining we can help bring stability to the EU.

As to NATO consider the fact that around 20 of the Nations in the EU are members of NATO. Why are you so comfortable being part of NATO but do not see that a stable EU is important to NATO.

But just say you are correct. Do you think that a UK would be any more secure outside this totalitarian monster containing most of the NATO nations.

I am more supportive of your last paragraph. The trouble is there is very little you can do to stop such firms using their resources in support of what they see as the interests of its clients and owners.

StevieJ

Sapphire wrote: »

But do you agree with giving up democracy, something we fought (with great difficulty) for hundreds of years to achieve? S

There is a persisting belief among people in Britain that European Union officials are unelected.
It is hard to pinpoint exactly where that idea comes from but the different rules that apply to different European bodies are probably partly to blame for the confusion.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/is-the-eu-undemocratic-2016-3