Will Brexit lead to mass deportations?

Moby

Sapphire wrote: »

Exactly. My parents were given political asylum in Britain by Churchill, along with other Poles who fought so hard against Germany and lost everything for all their efforts. They would have been murdered in Poland during the Stalinist period, as were countless Poles who returned to Poland from German POW camps (many Poles that had been in the armed uprising in Poland, like my parents, came to Britain from Italy via a German POW camp, after being imprisoned there for a year following the Warsaw Uprising). My siblings and I were born in Britain.

So to me, voting for Brexit is everything to do with keeping our democracy (having the power to vote in politicians personally). Even my aunt (and actually, other Poles), who lives in Poland having resided in Australia and in African countries for decades, says that Britain should vote to leave the EU.

It's about not having to obey orders handed from on high by Germany, over which the populations of European countries have no say and are unable to make decisions. The countries of Europe are not like the States of the United States, which have a pretty common history. They are nation states with very long histories that are totally different from each other, and which have different aspirations. On the whole, their citizens want to retain their cultures and systems (though some countries were bought off temporarily).

It's about leaving the awful economic mess the EU has caused in Europe, now just wanting Britain to remain in the EU so that our country can be used as a cash cow to bail them out (which is going to fail anyway, so the sooner we leave, the better for us). The money we give to the EU should be used by Britain to improve our country.

It's about being able to strike our own trade deals throughout the world, without the interference of faceless bureaucrats who don't know us and do not have our interests at heart.

It is about being able to control our borders to allow in those who will be of benefit to our country, and to keep out those who would eventually bankrupt us (destroying the NHS and destroying our infrastructure in the process, etc.). This is not racist. It is common sense.

I think that given Merkel's policies and Juncker's statements, etc., there is a real possibility of European nations lurching further and further to the right (this has already started and is a direct result of Merkel's dictatorial actions), with the inevitable outcome being war. I do not want to see this in Europe – and my parents certainly don't want to see it again. Therefore the sooner the European construct is dismantled (perhaps with aspects of it remaining), the better for Europe. I simply cannot see it working as any kind of 'ever-closer political union' – there is already resistance by too many people in Europe against such a union, and this will only increase.

So those are some of the reasons why I'll be voting for Brexit.

The historical narrative you describe is the reason you should be voting bremain imo. The EU emerged from the ashes of the destruction you described. France and Germany are now so entwined they cant compete and start another arms race. The fact that democracy is not working in the EU is not an argument to leave....it is an argument to reform it. Fragmentation will lead to chaos and guess who that suits very well......Putin of course!

Generali

Sapphire wrote: »

What a banal response. I used to find your posts generally interesting and balanced. No longer. :cool:

Oh well. I can't have a 100% strike rate on the interesting and well balanced score.

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

Oh well. I can't have a 100% strike rate on the interesting and well balanced score.

your belief that 3 million renters in London having no impact of houses prices, is reducing your score a little.

Sapphire

Moby wrote: »

The historical narrative you describe is the reason you should be voting bremain imo. The EU emerged from the ashes of the destruction you described. France and Germany are now so entwined they cant compete and start another arms race. The fact that democracy is not working in the EU is not an argument to leave....it is an argument to reform it. Fragmentation will lead to chaos and guess who that suits very well......Putin of course!

But do you agree with giving up democracy, something we fought (with great difficulty) for hundreds of years to achieve? Somehow I don't think many European countries agree to that – especially those that have suffered the 'benefits' of being occupied by foreign powers, like Prussia/Germany (for more than a hundred years, with much cruelty for one country), Russia and Ottoman Turkey. To me, it seems that it is precisely because democracy and the power of European populations to influence EU rulers is not working that the EU will not work, and is likely to cause considerable strife instead. The EU will not reform – its rulers made that quite plain.

I'm not against alliances on some issues as necessary, but the EU is authoritarian and could easily slide into totalitarianism (judging by human history) without us being able to vote on the matter at all. That I do not wish to see. We are part of NATO, and don't need to be in the EU for security purposes.

I'm also completely against the fact that the remain campaign is backed by financiers of the ilk of Goldman Sachs (even in the person of the Bank of England governor!). It is in their interests for the wages of working people to be ever lower, and the EU is one of the tools that is achieving that. It's already visible in the pay of working people in Britain…

TrickyTree83

Moby wrote: »

The historical narrative you describe is the reason you should be voting bremain imo. The EU emerged from the ashes of the destruction you described. France and Germany are now so entwined they cant compete and start another arms race. The fact that democracy is not working in the EU is not an argument to leave....it is an argument to reform it. Fragmentation will lead to chaos and guess who that suits very well......Putin of course!

Can't agree with that.

NATO doesn't exist then? If you asked Putin which he was more concerned with it would be NATO. The EU is not a defense mechanism. If NATO didn't exist and Russia invaded Estonia - can you show me the EU directive which states if one of us is attacked we're all attacked?

Andy_L

I suspect many of the existing EU expats, in both directions, will have been living their long enough to qualify for leave to remain under other criteria than EU citizenship

Andy_L

robin_banks wrote: »

Stanley for example left Accrington for Alicante. He might want back for a triple heart by-pass. But not to see out his days here.

If Stanley's broken residency then he's not entitled to that bypass on the NHS though. If leaving the EU means a loss of reciprocal healthcare then he's potentially in a world of hurt.

[Deleted User]

Andy_L wrote: »

I suspect many of the existing EU expats, in both directions, will have been living their long enough to qualify for leave to remain under other criteria than EU citizenship

Thank you for going back to topic.

Which other criteria could it be, apart from naturalisation?

I'd have thought, for example, that those who have acquired permanent residence status, i.e. exercising treaty rights for 5 years, would have been immune. However, according to the article I linked and I imagine very few have read, their status come from the application of the European directive 2003/109, therefore any European state can declare that inapplicable in case of Brexit.

DTDfanBoy

Andy_L wrote: »

I suspect many of the existing EU expats, in both directions, will have been living their long enough to qualify for leave to remain under other criteria than EU citizenship

I can't speak for the rest of Europe but EU citizens in the UK aren't eligible for leave to remain as things stand at present, the immigration rules currently don't apply to them so they haven't been granted the leave to enter the UK which is necessary for Inedfinate Leave to Remain to be granted.

TrickyTree83

I don't think any of the current rules will apply to EU nationals still in the UK after a leave vote the way they're being put across on here.

Do you really want hundreds of thousands of job roles to be emptied because those people no longer have the right to reside?

There will be some kind of blanket amnesty. Those in jobs, home ownership or with close family members who are in that position will be put on to the visa system I imagine, those who do not have anchors who are claiming state aid probably will be asked (or told) to leave.