Will Brexit lead to mass deportations?

Generali

michaels wrote: »

Veering off topic onto the EHCR, the UK could have its own constitution and bill orf rights that could be even more protective of rights than the EHCR (which I beleive is based to a large extent on UK laws anyway?)

The US, Canada, Australia etc all seem to manage without a consitutional crisis nor the ECHR over riding their own domestic human rights legislation.

Correct. The ECHR isn't anything to do with the EU so the UK can incorporate any view of human rights it sees fit into law regardless of the leave/remain vote.

Sapphire

ciaccino wrote: »

Let's say that Brexit goes forward and all of a sudden Spain decides to get tough on British expats and demand they have certain strict criteria to remain in the country. You will say this will not happen, but pretend for a second new elections in Spain come in and a populist government decides to get tough on the Brits. What would you do?

I doubt whether a broke country like Spain would do this – the British expats in Spain bring in large amounts money to the country.

The British expats are not economic migrants. Big difference.

Generali

Sapphire wrote: »

I doubt whether a broke country like Spain would do this – the British expats in Spain bring in large amounts money to the country.

The British expats are not economic migrants. Big difference.

So all those British bars on the Costa del Sol aren't run by British people?

Sapphire

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I'm voting to leave.

My wife is Ukrainian. A result of that is many of our friends are also immigrants. I don't want to stop Piotr and Mohammed.

I would like our democratic rights back.

I would like mass deregulation and dynamic innovative industry.

I would like to buy food from around the world and not from France and Germany because of EU protectionism.

I would like to cease giving money to the EU project that we could use in the UK.

I would like to strike trade deals with the rest of the world, something the EU has failed to achieve in the vast majority of cases where we're already trading with that nation (see China, USA, India).

I would like to give the fisherman back their territory that we ceded to Brussels.

And my wife feels the same as do many of her EU national friends. They are so very confused why there is a case for remain after they have experienced the collapse of their national industries after joining the EU. Declining wages and living standards in countries like Latvia, Slovakia, Lithuania. Causing them to emigrate to the UK. What a bizarre set of circumstances.

Exactly. My parents were given political asylum in Britain by Churchill, along with other Poles who fought so hard against Germany and lost everything for all their efforts. They would have been murdered in Poland during the Stalinist period, as were countless Poles who returned to Poland from German POW camps (many Poles that had been in the armed uprising in Poland, like my parents, came to Britain from Italy via a German POW camp, after being imprisoned there for a year following the Warsaw Uprising). My siblings and I were born in Britain.

So to me, voting for Brexit is everything to do with keeping our democracy (having the power to vote in politicians personally). Even my aunt (and actually, other Poles), who lives in Poland having resided in Australia and in African countries for decades, says that Britain should vote to leave the EU.

It's about not having to obey orders handed from on high by Germany, over which the populations of European countries have no say and are unable to make decisions. The countries of Europe are not like the States of the United States, which have a pretty common history. They are nation states with very long histories that are totally different from each other, and which have different aspirations. On the whole, their citizens want to retain their cultures and systems (though some countries were bought off temporarily).

It's about leaving the awful economic mess the EU has caused in Europe, now just wanting Britain to remain in the EU so that our country can be used as a cash cow to bail them out (which is going to fail anyway, so the sooner we leave, the better for us). The money we give to the EU should be used by Britain to improve our country.

It's about being able to strike our own trade deals throughout the world, without the interference of faceless bureaucrats who don't know us and do not have our interests at heart.

It is about being able to control our borders to allow in those who will be of benefit to our country, and to keep out those who would eventually bankrupt us (destroying the NHS and destroying our infrastructure in the process, etc.). This is not racist. It is common sense.

I think that given Merkel's policies and Juncker's statements, etc., there is a real possibility of European nations lurching further and further to the right (this has already started and is a direct result of Merkel's dictatorial actions), with the inevitable outcome being war. I do not want to see this in Europe – and my parents certainly don't want to see it again. Therefore the sooner the European construct is dismantled (perhaps with aspects of it remaining), the better for Europe. I simply cannot see it working as any kind of 'ever-closer political union' – there is already resistance by too many people in Europe against such a union, and this will only increase.

So those are some of the reasons why I'll be voting for Brexit.

Sapphire

Generali wrote: »

So all those British bars on the Costa del Sol aren't run by British people?

I've no idea. I've never been to the Costa del Sol, but I would imagine that any British people who run bars there probably aren't 'economic migrants'. The people I know who live in countries like France and Spain live there because they like the weather and way of life, and they contribute a great deal to the economies.

Incidentally, I'm not sure why you even comment on the EU business, given that you live in Australia, so won't bear the brunt of Merkel's policies, as do/will many Europeans…

BobQ

CLAPTON wrote: »

well, one would expect the rights of EU citizens to be well defined : I would expect the rights of citizens that were EU citizens but their country has left, to be well defined : there is no reason to assume that they lapse

as I said it should be a matter of fact (EU law) although I don't know the facts

I assume it lapses as the Treaty is written in the present tense. It says you are an EU citizen if you are a citizen on an EU member. Not have been, were, etc. I think the former EU citizen is defined by implication since if you are not currently an EU Citizen you do not have the rights defined. But if they do not lapse then so be it.

BobQ

Sapphire wrote: »

I've no idea. I've never been to the Costa del Sol, but I would imagine that any British people who run bars there probably aren't 'economic migrants'. The people I know who live in countries like France and Spain live there because they like the weather and way of life, and they contribute a great deal to the economies.

…

What do you think an economic migrant is?

They have gone there and many work. Not just doing bar work but also as Teachers, Tourist Guides, and other jobs. Many more are self employed and work electronically for firms in other nations.

They all derive an income from their efforts and have decided they have a better life through it. That is what an economic migrant is!
,

Generali

Sapphire wrote: »

I've no idea. I've never been to the Costa del Sol, but I would imagine that any British people who run bars there probably aren't 'economic migrants'. The people I know who live in countries like France and Spain live there because they like the weather and way of life, and they contribute a great deal to the economies.

How do you define an economic migrant? I'd say an economic migrant is someone who migrates for economic rather than other reasons, e.g. to set up a business overseas.

Sapphire wrote: »

Incidentally, I'm not sure why you even comment on the EU business, given that you live in Australia, so won't bear the brunt of Merkel's policies, as do/will many Europeans…

To annoy Little Englanders.

Sapphire

BobQ wrote: »

What do you think an economic migrant is?

They have gone there and many work. Not just doing bar work but also as Teachers, Tourist Guides, and other jobs. Many more are self employed and work electronically for firms in other nations.

They all derive an income from their efforts and have decided they have a better life through it. That is what an economic migrant is!
,

That's fine – they are of benefit to the countries they go to, as are the migrants who come here and work. I've never argued against that being a good thing.

However, I was talking about British expats before being sidetracked onto the issue of working people. The many expats who settle in France and Spain are of great benefit to those countries, since they can afford spend money, whether it's on food, on doing up their properties, or other things. That's why I don't think those countries would 'send them back' to Britain – it would not be in their interest to do so, in the same way that it would not be in Britain's interest to do such a thing here.

Sapphire

Generali wrote: »

To annoy Little Englanders.

What a banal response. I used to find your posts generally interesting and balanced. No longer. :cool: