BREXIT - Why?

dougzz

jimjames wrote: »

Some things are just better done at a level above a certain country. I have an old car (well 1980s anyway) , looking through the manuals the fuel consumption is measured to the UK Passenger Fuel order 1977. Now that is done at an EU level. We forget how daft it would be for every country to specify their own regulations for measurement for example and the manufacturers have to follow each country they sell in. Now they do one test for all 28.

So it's fine so have simplicity but everyone doing their own thing will add to the costs overall.

And that fuel consumption information is as rubbish in the real world today as it was in 1977.

What is most interesting in the whole debate is the complete lack of real information. My biggest surprise is the general remain view of the left leaning politicians. I've always believed the EU is primarilly benefitting corporations and itself, it seems lacking in democracy, self-serving, and in all respects just more government.

maxie014

Aaaaaaaaaah the eu gravy train,i can remember this cretin when he couldnt win an election,things turned out not too bad,his son and daughter both now benefit from the train as well now.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/campaign-highlights-kinnocks-10m-eu-2100178

talexuser

The most depressing thing to me about the whole debate is the lack of balance. When one side or the other point out a definite advantage one way or the other, the other side has to try and rubbish the blindingly obvious benefit, sometime to a quite ridiculous extent which insults your intelligence. That and Boris and Cameron going on about World War 3 and Hitler.

maxie014

talexuser wrote: »

The most depressing thing to me about the whole debate is the lack of balance. When one side or the other point out a definite advantage one way or the other, the other side has to try and rubbish the blindingly obvious benefit, sometime to a quite ridiculous extent which insults your intelligence. That and Boris and Cameron going on about World War 3 and Hitler.

I said the same a few weeks back,i still cant beleive the rubbish thats being spouted about such an important issue.

uk1

talexuser wrote: »

The most depressing thing to me about the whole debate is the lack of balance. When one side or the other point out a definite advantage one way or the other, the other side has to try and rubbish the blindingly obvious benefit, sometime to a quite ridiculous extent which insults your intelligence. That and Boris and Cameron going on about World War 3 and Hitler.

I think one of the problems is that no one actually knows whether we will be better in or out, but they feel the need to make statements that they do not know for certain to be true. So we get all these nponsense pronouncements. No one knows. But they say they do. The problem is that the exit side cannot state at all what the process and results will be by exiting because no government will engage with the argument until afterwards. So the exit side is at a disadvantage. But those that say they "know" are certainly worthy of your mistrust! That is a certainty!

But the other thing is that uncertainty has been cast as though it is always worst than certainty. But that also isn't true. It is true that people feel more comfortable with certainty, but not under every set of circumstances. To take a silly example simply to make the point, if you were to take a person on "death row" who was going to be executed the following morning and gave him the opportunity of "uncertainty" ie say attempting a break out with only a 1% chance of surviving then uncertainty might be the better option than certainty. For people like me who are firmly for exiting then the certainty of what will come if we remain is much much worst than what we are told is the uncertainty if we leave.

But my reasons are a different topic ....




Jeff

BananaRepublic

It's hardly surprising they all want us to stay:

http://www.money-go-round.eu/Country.aspx?id=UK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union

We make a large net financial contribution, many countries such as Greece, Portugal and Poland get a net gain. They bribed the Eastern European countries to join with the promise of large net gains. No surprise then that they joined.

The US want us to stay because then we are inside TTIP, which looks to be a large gain for US multinationals, allowing them to get round our food standards and other regs that currently keep out US growth hormone fed beef etc. They also probably want us to try and bring some sanity to the socialist leaning idealist eurocracy.

aspiration_2

Ultimately it is seeing is believing. Till the eastern block countries were allowed in to the EU it was ok. The EU somewhat worked well, as all the countries in it were reasonably equal in earning capacities. We were only allowing immigrants who had certain skills. Our children had a good chance of owning their own home, just like us. Once the door opened, millions of Poles, Latvians dropped everything and poured in to the UK, initially by coaches. Because in their opinion their countries were near third world and they wanted a better living for their families. Now everyone in the UK has got into buy to let business as all these immigrants were happy to live in crammed living conditions because of higher earnings in the UK. UK has to build millions and millions of new houses to home all those who are getting ready to come here from Romania etc, now probably Turkey as well.

There NEVER will be enough houses and our children are never going to own homes the way it has been done before. BREXIT will have some minor negative impacts on trade, but the positives like our children being able to buy houses far outweigh any negatives.

I believe Germany and France do not want us to leave the EU because then there will be one less country to bear the burden of the new EU.

uk1

aspiration wrote: »

I believe Germany and France do not want us to leave the EU because then there will be one less country to bear the burden of the new EU.

This is true, but I believe that it is more than that. Much more.

The elephant in the room is that no one seems to have twigged - or they have but haven't mentioned - is that an exit for the UK will trigger a domino effect of other states including Germany and France.

The French will demand a referendum to leave. France are not shy of going onto the streets and lobbing the odd petrol bomb. Both German and French citizens hold the EU responsible for the swarm of immingrants and the ISIS attacks. It is my instinct that both German and French and several other populations also want out. If we leave, then the game is basically up for the EU. All we need is for the deal to allow all Turks unrestricted shenghen style travel rights and it is over.

Jeff

Takedap

Paul_1977 wrote: »

I am still of the opinion that even if we vote out, we won't leave. The government will create a puff of smoke and then hold another referendum. They should be ashamed, running this country onto the rocks.

I think that's what BoJo really wants. That way, he gets Cameron kicked out & inherits the crown. Then he "negotiates" with the EU to get a "better deal" Then we vote again with BJ campaigning for the IN side & the coup is complete.

If he had any real desire to leave the EU, he wouldn't have sat on the fence for so long waiting to see which way the political wind was blowing.

savings_my_hobby

talexuser wrote: »

The most depressing thing to me about the whole debate is the lack of balance. When one side or the other point out a definite advantage one way or the other, the other side has to try and rubbish the blindingly obvious benefit, sometime to a quite ridiculous extent which insults your intelligence. That and Boris and Cameron going on about World War 3 and Hitler.

To be fair to Boris he also mentioned Napoleon in the same sentence and could have just as easily mentioned the Holy Roman Empire, as soon as people hear the word Hitler there is mass hysteria, perhaps someone should point out that he is dead (and good riddance).

Anyway why do people need to hear rhetoric from politicians and corporations, take a look around, the change in the last 12 years has been astronomical (in my area anyway). Besides there is a wealth of books and we have the internet at our fingertips - forget self serving rhetoric and research this yourselves.