Octopus Energy reviews: Give your feedback

niktheguru

With tracker electricity being  at 18.11p/kwh and gas unit rate 4.2p/kwh in my area........its definitely time to jump ship and fix!

Telegraph_Sam

[Deleted User] said:

As this forum is supposed to be for reviews about Octopus as a supplier, is it not time for a separate thread on non Octopus-related subjects?

I believe that there are already several non-Octopus energy threads. This one is focusing on how Octopus consumers are dealing with the current situation - switch or not to switch and where to etc.  Difficult to see how this could be migrated to a different thread IMHO.  Accepting that it should not wander off topic, it is sometimes difficult to draw a line in the sand.
What title / definition would you give to the new thread?

Former_MSE_Laura

Gerry1 said:

niktheguru said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

It looks like SO Energy have replaced their Birch gas tariff, which was quite attractive, with "Cherry" which is less so.
It looks like Igloo offers dual fuel only with their Pioneer variable tariff, not just gas.

I had intended to make use of the Referral Board but now understand that this has been withdrawn. Strange. Has it been replaced with something else?  And/or do the MSE rules still forbid quoting referral codes in threads such as these?

Yes the referral board is gone which is a shame, it hasn't been replaced. We are not allowed to post referral codes in threads as it is against forum rules. 

Presumably MSE prefers to get commission from CEC referrals rather than see it shared out between forumites.

The focus seems to be shifting from Money Saving Expert to Money Making Expert. 

Hi Gerry1,

What you’re suggesting would be a direct contradiction of MSE’s Editorial Code and founding principles, namely that we put the consumer first and that our editorial stance remains independent from any commercial objectives. The decision to remove the Referrers board came down to the fact that it only comprised 0.36% of the Forum’s content yet required many hours of managing per week.

Thanks,

MSE Laura

Gerry1

MSE_Laura said:

Gerry1 said:

niktheguru said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

It looks like SO Energy have replaced their Birch gas tariff, which was quite attractive, with "Cherry" which is less so.
It looks like Igloo offers dual fuel only with their Pioneer variable tariff, not just gas.

I had intended to make use of the Referral Board but now understand that this has been withdrawn. Strange. Has it been replaced with something else?  And/or do the MSE rules still forbid quoting referral codes in threads such as these?

Yes the referral board is gone which is a shame, it hasn't been replaced. We are not allowed to post referral codes in threads as it is against forum rules. 

Presumably MSE prefers to get commission from CEC referrals rather than see it shared out between forumites.

The focus seems to be shifting from Money Saving Expert to Money Making Expert. 

Hi Gerry1,

What you’re suggesting would be a direct contradiction of MSE’s Editorial Code and founding principles, namely that we put the consumer first and that our editorial stance remains independent from any commercial objectives. The decision to remove the Referrers board came down to the fact that it only comprised 0.36% of the Forum’s content yet required many hours of managing per week.

Thanks,

MSE Laura

@MSE_Laura Many thanks for responding.

However, I do still feel that the CSE is tarnishing MSE's reputation because now it always seeks to persuade users to sign up to something which is likely to be non-optimum.  The cheapest solution is obtained by comparing all suppliers and tariffs, preferably with separate suppliers.  The CEC used to get very, very close to this ideal, although it didn't compare separate suppliers: this was something you had to do for yourself.  But the CEC was the top comparison site because it defaulted to sensible savings figures rather than using Ofgem's stupidly misleading formula.

Sadly, all that's now history.  The cheapest solution is now always the last CEC option: you have to run the gauntlet of umpteen invitations to settle for something inferior (Autoswitch or Pick Me A Tariff), which just happen to give results more likely to feature companies that pay commission to MSE.

Of course, this is a problem for all comparison sites: the cheapest companies seldom pay commission so if every user becomes a 'freeloader' then the sites can't make money.

The problem is that the CEC still promotes its 'holier than thou' philosophy despite it now putting more obstacles in the way of finding the cheapest solution that the commercial comparison sites do.  They usually have just one button to click in order to see the wider market, but the CSE has far more elephant traps en route.

It may be true that the Referrals board took up a lot of management time (surely it must have been largely self-policing because users would soon have reported any abuse?) but it all fits into the pattern of preferring to maximise revenue rather than always being on the side of the consumer, hence my cynicism.

Telegraph_Sam

I would like to echo much of Gerry1's informed comments. I have long since given up taking the figures quoted in comparison site rankings at face value without running the rates through my own spreadsheet.  The real sinner is the figure claimed as "savings" which most likely are driven by Ofgem's rules. These come over as arbitrary depending on the underlying assumptions. Far better that the rankings should highlight the actual annual costs, and order the suppliers according to this. The "savings" can be relegated to somewhere out of harm's way. If adopted this should - in theory - lead to greater unanimity between CEC and the others, to the benefit of the consumer. I won't go further into the issue of commissions myself at this stage.

There may well have been reasons for removing "referral invitations" from the actual threads. When overdone these could be annoying. But to ban them altogether when the referrals board obviously fulfilled a useful function is frankly going overboard. I don't see that moderating the board should be so time consuming, if it is made totally clear that using the referrals is entirely at the user's personal risk.  I myself only became aware of the Referrals Board very late in the day, it could have done with a rather higher profile if indeed it was a response to consumer demand.  I am hoping that whoever decides these things will have a re-think.

masonic

Telegraph_Sam said:

The real sinner is the figure claimed as "savings" which most likely are driven by Ofgem's rules. These come over as arbitrary depending on the underlying assumptions. Far better that the rankings should highlight the actual annual costs, and order the suppliers according to this. The "savings" can be relegated to somewhere out of harm's way. If adopted this should - in theory - lead to greater unanimity between CEC and the others, to the benefit of the consumer.

I'm not sure how you are doing your comparisons, Sam, but if you put in actual annual kWh usage figures then the savings and annual costs are calculated based on those. If your current tariff isn't listed by the comparison site (like the Tracker, Agile, Go etc won't be) then the savings figure will always be inaccurate as it will be based on whatever different current tariff you select, but the annual costs will be accurate and sorting is based on those.

Telegraph_Sam said:

I don't see that moderating the board should be so time consuming, if it is made totally clear that using the referrals is entirely at the user's personal risk.  I myself only became aware of the Referrals Board very late in the day, it could have done with a rather higher profile if indeed it was a response to consumer demand.  I am hoping that whoever decides these things will have a re-think.

There's no question that it took a lot of moderation, just ask Browntoa! It was very heavily abused, with people spamming their link, offering referral splits when not allowed, coercing people to sign up for things that were not in their best interests, and of course every thread required MSE to check the relevant offer to make sure they, as the publisher, adhered to the rules around what others were allowed to post, and there was nothing dodgy about the offer (MSE cannot disclaim its legal, regulatory, and data protection obligations). The chance to make a quick buck does seem to bring out the worst in some people.

I think with a sufficient number of volunteers it could have continued to run, but I suspect that number could not be found among the sufficiently trusted portion of the user base. It's a shame, and I'll miss it - it saved me thousands, but I can understand why the decision was made.

niktheguru

Wow, tracker gas up to 4.33p/kwh in my region.....looking forward to moving away now! (still 3 weeks away!) Luckily the sun has come out today.

masonic said:

There's no question that it took a lot of moderation, just ask Browntoa! It was very heavily abused, with people spamming their link, offering referral splits when not allowed, coercing people to sign up for things that were not in their best interests, and of course every thread required MSE to check the relevant offer to make sure they, as the publisher, adhered to the rules around what others were allowed to post, and there was nothing dodgy about the offer (MSE cannot disclaim its legal, regulatory, and data protection obligations). The chance to make a quick buck does seem to bring out the worst in some people.

I think with a sufficient number of volunteers it could have continued to run, but I suspect that number could not be found among the sufficiently trusted portion of the user base. It's a shame, and I'll miss it - it saved me thousands, but I can understand why the decision was made.

With regards to the referrals board I do think its a shame its gone. Though i suspect some abused it, just like if you look on facebook and twitter you'll find people who keep posting their referral links after every single post made by a supplier.

I do disagree about the referral splits. They were allowed, its just you weren't allowed to give money directly to people e.g. via paypal, but you were allowed to use vouchers like amazon vouchers. I must say I signed up to octopus this way as someone was kind enough to split their bonus with me, that way it benefits both parties. Mind you I got two forum warnings in the process,  the first as i offered a paypal split without knowing it was banned (i'm a very longstanding user of the forums and in the old days it was allowed) once told about this i removed it and offered a voucher, but was then given another warning as some jobsmith people reported me for  "insinuating a money transfer was still on the table" which I hadn't done at all, and even the moderator said they couldn't directly see that but still deleted my post, which annoyed me quite a bit. As a longtime MSE user I spend quite a bit of time trying to help people on these boards and posted in good faith, and to be threated with "bans" left quite a sour taste. Its not the same as a person with 2 posts trying to spam the referral board!!
I do agree with what Gerry1 says, the "cashback" from sites like MSE CEC in comparison are quite paltry. For example there is a company that offers a £40 referral bonus to each party, yet if you switch via CEC the cashback is £12.50......not exactly massively moneysaving as theres a potential £67.50 lost to users! I agree they need to make money somehow, but if it were a more modest £30, that would be better!

Telegraph_Sam

"Wow, tracker gas up to 4.33p/kwh in my region.....looking forward to moving away now! (still 3 weeks away!) Luckily the sun has come out today."
The North East cannot quite match 4.33 though not for lack of trying.

Can you remind us who it is that you decided to switch to with your knowledge of the market. Was it Symbio?
Being in the same boat myself my research seems to be saying that there is very little to choose between the various alternatives offering fixed gas tariffs with small or no exit charges. Ignoring those with dodgy reviews gives me a short list of 6 - 7 including Octopus' own Fixed. All costing more or less what I am currently paying with Tracker gas.

RE referrals - it is a pity that the principle seems to have been stamped on without a proposal for a better alternative. Likewise I myself had a split offer removed from the thread;  the referrals board would have been a better home for it. It is at the end of the day a "market place". No reason why the T's and C's should not ensure that participants apply caveat emptor to eliminate the need for excessive moderating or indeed any liability on the part of MSE. A few general words of warning should be sufficient to cover the bulk of situations. I request a rethink unless there are strong reasons for the contrary.

masonic

niktheguru said:

I do disagree about the referral splits. They were allowed, its just you weren't allowed to give money directly to people e.g. via paypal, but you were allowed to use vouchers like amazon vouchers.

It was case by case, for some offers it was explicitly prohibited, others it was permitted subject to some restrictions - the board guide would usually state whether or not it was allowed in any way after MSE had vetted the offer. This was generally indicated within the first few posts.

I do agree that lots of people played fair and as usual a good thing was spoiled by a minority who took the mickey and others who would unfairly report people to get rid of some of the competition.

Telegraph_Sam said:

No reason why the T's and C's should not ensure that participants apply caveat emptor to eliminate the need for excessive moderating or indeed any liability on the part of MSE. A few general words of warning should be sufficient to cover the bulk of situations. I request a rethink unless there are strong reasons for the contrary.

No T&Cs can affect a statutory right, such as the right to take legal action against a publisher like MSE should bad things happen to you as a result of a personal information disclosure facilitated through the forums. MSE needs to take reasonable steps to protect people visiting its forums. It has taken the position that to do so would put undue strain on its resources, so it is no longer permitting certain burdensome activities to take place. The fact that there isn't a natural alternative place we can go to exchange referrals suggests MSE isn't alone in being cautious about such an exchange.

I suspect what will ultimately happen is that things like this will end up being done off MSE after a roundabout discussion in a general thread.

MWT

Just as a public service advisory, I wouldn't suggest a protracted 'referral' debate in this group and this thread as it is the wrong place for 'site feedback' and may attract negative attention given it has already been noted by Laura...