Shouldnt the "Remain" vote be winning by a landslide??

BobQ

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The UK plays with property rather than generating real wealth by investing in productive assets.

I agree.

How will that help us when we leave the EU?

Johnsmith2016

How did the UK be so powerful and influential prior to 1975?

Filo25

Johnsmith2016 wrote: »

How did the UK be so powerful and influential prior to 1975?

I wasn't aware that it was particularly strong and influential in the early 70's

mwpt

Filo25 wrote: »

and even I would support a further referendum if we found ourselves transferring SIGNIFICANT powers to the EU in future without the popular support of the people of the UK.

I would absolutely support the UK voting to leave if the remain mandate was to join the Euro which after many years of "trial" has been revealed as flawed imo.

The way I see an ideal EU operating is free movement as currently, trade as currently, trade laws that help make trade smoother as currently, scrapping of the Euro, or at the very least allowing countries which would like to to leave the Euro project. That would eliminate the requirement for "ever closer political union" and allow a more evolutionary approach to take place. Gradually find out what works. Basically, be less dogmatic. And I would think the UK should be part of such a union.

angrypirate

mayonnaise wrote: »

So what are they going to do if we refuse to sign up and ratify any of these 'closer union' initiatives? Expel us from the EU?:)

Really, stop scaremongering already.

Um, ever closer union is already ratified and they dont need us to sign up for a lot of the smaller initiatives - we've already given those ratification powers away to the EU.

ess0two

I was sat on the fence in terms of my vote...


Until Obama spouted crap about dealings with the US, I'm sure he'd tell Cameron to do one if the boot was on the other foot.


Leave for me now.

Filo25

mwpt wrote: »

I would absolutely support the UK voting to leave if the remain mandate was to join the Euro which after many years of "trial" has been revealed as flawed imo.

The way I see an ideal EU operating is free movement as currently, trade as currently, trade laws that help make trade smoother as currently, scrapping of the Euro, or at the very least allowing countries which would like to to leave the Euro project. That would eliminate the requirement for "ever closer political union" and allow a more evolutionary approach to take place. Gradually find out what works. Basically, be less dogmatic. And I would think the UK should be part of such a union.

Very much the same for me in terms of my attitude towards joining the Euro, the UK economy is too dissimilar to the Core Eurozone members for anything good to come of that.

My ideal for the EU would be similar to yourself I think, an evolution towards a core and periphery arrangement, ever closer union for those that want it and a looser structure for those that don't (and the UK is far from alone in not wanting further integration at present).

It's an arrangement that I think ultimately makes the most sense for the future stability of the EU.

tempus_fugit

Johnsmith2016 wrote: »

Its interesting to note the older the age group demographic the more eurosceptic they are, our senior citizens are probably best to judge as they remember a time before and during the EU

That's precisely the reason I DON'T think they are best to judge. Most of them are harking back to some kind of "golden age", that never really existed and in any event we have moved on. I know a lot of them and their views are entrenched in the past and they have no idea of how we are and should be moving forward. Understandable of course, but I would rather they wouldn't land the rest of us in the mire in a vain search for this vaunted golden age.

Filo25

ess0two wrote: »

I was sat on the fence in terms of my vote...


Until Obama spouted crap about dealings with the US, I'm sure he'd tell Cameron to do one if the boot was on the other foot.


Leave for me now.

What Obama said wasn't new, I had seen similar comments from US officials previously, basically a UK trade deal isn't a priority for the US until an EU one is in place, I honestly don't see what is so offensive about that, the US has every right to follow whatever trade policy it deems appropriate.

That said I am sure it is being slightly over-egged, but it is a sensible starting position for the US in any negotiation, it puts any future talks on the basis that we are a lot more keen to do a deal than they are, that is unlikely to lead to a particularly favourable deal for the UK, unless we are happy to wait them out for a long period.

System

Scare tactics by obumma, what he says and what he does are 2 different things