If we vote to Remain what happens?

Johnsmith2016

Corbyn sold out big time, a rebel until it matters. Such a shame as i feel a lot of labour supporters would of been leave, but may now be swayed to remain to support their leader and not look silly.
For me labour are kinda obsolete as a party, they were relevant for the working man in early 19th century when we needed someone to look after our lowest paid workers from getting exploited etc and had types of industries like mining and cotton mills- now most of what they did is either written into law to prevent it and protect workers, or is simply no longer a relevant industry. In corbyn a 70s man in a digital world, by electing a loon labour have essentially handed tories another win. He was supposed be the principled one, anti EU for 40 years. Now they are Tory Lite and pro EU and not for the working class anymore.
They were embarransingly silent on one of the biggest issues of recent times the referendum, until they were forced to make a stance. Such weak leadership - plus corbyn is dreaming if he is pro EU with the caveat of "reform" - surely labour supporters can see straight through this tripe and know the EU cannot be reformed by its very nature its job is to do what it is currently doing. Just look at cameron, embarrasingly going over with his begging bowl, getting laughed at, his deal was watered down, and what he did acheive is not even legally binding, he got ZERO reform or treaty changes despite what he says, all he got was a few IOUs on a bit of scrap paper.

I understand why, labour became tory lite pro eu under blair and corbyn doesnt want to see the infighting in his party and to save himsef getting kicked out of his own party. I think more and more UKIP will become the real 2nd party over next few decades, when you consider their vote progress over last 5 years at last election and Euro election they did really well, i know they only won 1 seat due to the first past the post rule, but just look at how many votes they actually got vs lib dems and even closing the gap on labour. Incredible rise over last 5 years and the only reason we have a referndum is UKIP.

quarky

N1AK wrote: »

Rather unsurprisingly these are the typical brexiter fears (aside from the main one: immigration) dressed up in new clothes and entirely lacking any evidence as usual.

Your first point is incredibly inane.

Johnsmith2016

Trust me, if we remain, there will be sweeping changes by the EU after June.
They will make it near impossible to leave or get concessions, they wont want a repeat of this and will tighten their grip.
There will also be a EU army, a social union to control our minimim wage, pensions and benefits, and turkey and ukraine will join

quarky

"Remain" is no status quo.

It seems clear that it will be the "start of the end" of any sense of independence and nationhood. Whether you think that is a good thing or a bad thing is a different matter, but closing the door on leaving the EU opens the floodgates on a federated EU.

Generali

Johnsmith2016 wrote: »

Trust me, if we remain, there will be sweeping changes by the EU after June.
They will make it near impossible to leave or get concessions, they wont want a repeat of this and will tighten their grip.
There will also be a EU army, a social union to control our minimim wage, pensions and benefits, and turkey and ukraine will join

Are you seriously still banging that drum? How the heck to you think Turkey can join the EU in a few months. It takes years to run through the processes required.

antrobus

Johnsmith2016 wrote: »

....For me labour are kinda obsolete as a party, they were relevant for the working man in early 19th century .

The Labour Party only came into existence in 1910, thus I believe they were of no relevance at all during the 19th century.

globalds

Generali wrote: »

Are you seriously still banging that drum? How the heck to you think Turkey can join the EU in a few months. It takes years to run through the processes required.

Tell me about it ..
It will take UK ten years to leave should the public vote for it

antrobus

CLAPTON wrote: »

the only significant europe post WW2 conflict was the yugoslav conflict.......

Doesn't the Greek Civil War count? The invasion of Czechoslovakia? The invasion of Cyprus?

Is the Caucasus regarded as part of Europe these days? I don'k know, but there have been a lot of wars there in recent times.

CLAPTON

antrobus wrote: »

Doesn't the Greek Civil War count? The invasion of Czechoslovakia? The invasion of Cyprus?

Is the Caucasus regarded as part of Europe these days? I don'k know, but there have been a lot of wars there in recent times.

No, the EU claim that it has stopped all european wars has a narrative that excluded all european conflicts from being called wars. Even the Yugoslavia conflict isn't really counted as a 'war'.

It's just part of the normal double speak that says all good things only occur because of the EU and all bad things obviously have nothing at all to do with the EU (like high unemployment, the dire state of Greece etc)

mwpt

Johnsmith2016 wrote: »

Trust me, if we remain, there will be sweeping changes by the EU after June.

Trust you? Are you privy to some information the rest of us are not?

They will make it near impossible to leave

Could you explain a mechanism by which they will make it impossible to leave? How will they stop an entire sovereign country from closing borders, ceasing trade deals and so forth? Threaten to nuke us?

EDIT: I'm also hoping you'll clarify what you meant by "undemocratic" with regard the Dutch - Ukraine situation. It's not helpful to put out random emotive statements like this without clarifying what you mean.