The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

IveSeenTheLight

Shaka_Zulu wrote: »

In that case the SNP had the right to vote against it. Did they?

No

Its fully understandable the position they took.

Shaka_Zulu wrote: »

So please stop whining!

Always whining you nats, the powers you have you don't use but just whine on about how unfair it is.

I'm not whining at all.
I've articulated numerous times the position I believe is best for the people in Scotland and what we need to achieve that.

My points may be in disagreement with yours, but its certainly not whining to have opposing thoughts

Shaka_Zulu wrote: »

The Nats should play the hand they were dealt and get on with running the country instead of running Scotland in to the ground.

There's not many card games you can play when your only given a portion of the deck.
Once we have full autonomy, then we can play a full and proper game, instead of the cherry picked cards we are dealt with.

IveSeenTheLight

.string. wrote: »

The SNP rely on something which was hidden away in the full mamifesto, safe from the prying eyes of the electorate.

Hidden away, hardly.
As soon as Brexit referendum was announced, NS campaigned for inclusiveness across the nations and detailed repeatedly in the media that it needed a consensus across the nations to put in place.

.string. wrote: »

It is academic anyway because the UK has the right to deny a referendum.

How democratic.

However the request has not been denied, merely stated that the time is not right now.
Nicola Sturgeon has been very open on this matter and happy to concede the timing based on the results of the Brexit outcome when the electorate is better informed of the consequences.

.string. wrote: »

The Union does not exist for one part alone and it's disoution requires a consensus. At this time a Scottish referendum would not be in the National interest, and that includes the interests of the majority of Scots who voted No in the last Referendum and more than 10 times that number in the rest of the UK.

However the campaign for 'No', fought on the basis that the only way to remain in the EU was to remain as part of the UK.
It was part of their fear campaign and as a result was fundamentally wrong.

Hence, the democratic right of the devolved government to vote (as they did) and request a second independence referendum.

.string. wrote: »

So the SNP can get back in their plotting corner and wait, not keep trying to scr*w things up for the rest of us.

Its interesting to see different perceptions, despite how absurd they are.

You've alluded above that Westminster have the right to deny and its very clear, that Theresa May will do what she wants as opposed to what despite she has previously agreed to.

One wonders if TM will lead by democracy or by dictatorship

.string.

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Hidden away, hardly.

Yes hidden away, and misrepresented. The rationale was explained in my post by Hague

As soon as Brexit referendum was announced, NS campaigned for inclusiveness across the nations and detailed repeatedly in the media that it needed a consensus across the nations to put in place.

How democratic.

BS - Sturgeon & co were not interested in consensus but just in getting their own way . Sturgeon trumpeted a "Compromise" which was simply the usual cynical tactic so loved by the SNP making a transparently impossible demand as a pretext for whingeing when it was not agreed. Several meetings were held between the UK people and those from the devolved administrations and views were exchanged but it is the UK Government that is responsible for negotiating the deal and that is not a subject which can be vetoed by Amy of the devolved administrations.

We are all in the one country, so the EU Referendum result was democratically obtained. Democracy allows everyone in the UK to vote for the decision. Democracy is not a situation where a minority can vetoed the majority

However the request has not been denied, merely stated that the time is not right now.
True, although it can be denied, it has not but the timing of it has not because it will interfere with the obtaining of a result which is good for the UK. Sturgeon is hell bent on having a Referendum before Brexit and before the Scottish election. If Scots in. Referendum want to separate from the UK, it can be at a time when it does not damage those negotiations and when the substance of the deal obtained is known which will be after Brexit, not before.

Nicola Sturgeon has been very open on this matter and happy to concede the timing based on the results of the Brexit outcome when the electorate is better informed of the consequences.
No - she insists on having a referendum before the terms of Brexit are known]
However the campaign for 'No', fought on the basis that the only way to remain in the EU was to remain as part of the UK.

It was part of their fear campaign and as a result was fundamentally wrong. A non sequitur there - in any case it was the truth at the time

Hence, the democratic right of the devolved government to vote (as they did) and request a second independence referendum.

So they have requested but the answer is that the time is not right.

Its interesting to see different perceptions, despite how absurd they are.

You've alluded above that Westminster have the right to deny and its very clear, that Theresa May will do what she wants as opposed to what despite she has previously agreed to.

One wonders if TM will lead by democracy or by dictatorship


As for the rest of the post, it is just vindictivene spin, is it really necessary to post troll cartoons?

Comments are in bold within the quoted post.

The_Last_Username

As for the rest of the post, it is just vindictivene spin, is it really necessary to post troll cartoons?

You know how it works by now.
Drown out all dissent by whatever means possible.

Multiple posts; lengthy irrelevant diatribes; and images.
Anything to remove evidence of dissent from the page on view.

It's a sure sign of how worried they are.
A slowly dawning realisation that the days of SNP-held power are over and with them, hopes of independence.

A_Pict_In_A_Past_Life

The_Last_Username wrote: »

You know how it works by now.
Drown out all dissent by whatever means possible.

Multiple posts; lengthy irrelevant diatribes; and images.
Anything to remove evidence of dissent from the page on view.

It's a sure sign of how worried they are.
A slowly dawning realisation that the days of SNP-held power are over and with them, hopes of independence.

:T
The weekend polls suggest at least seven seats will go to the tories from the SNP.
Lots of us living here think it will be more.

Shaka_Zulu

Most Scots would back an independent Scotland within Europe if faced with the straight choice of going it alone or living under another N Korean leader after Brexit, a new poll has revealed.

Independent Scotland in Europe - 98.2%
N Korean Govt and out of Europe - 1.8%

Here is a poll that gives you over 98%

It has about as much validity as the absurd one you quoted.

Enterprise_1701C

That is not a very good picture of Sturgeon, I think it has to be her because she is the one that will not allow dissent within her party, and complains about the idea of the UK becoming a one party country when all they would be doing is replicating Scotland, only not in the way she wants.

Shakethedisease

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

That is not a very good picture of Sturgeon, I think it has to be her because she is the one that will not allow dissent within her party, and complains about the idea of the UK becoming a one party country when all they would be doing is replicating Scotland, only not in the way she wants.

Nah. You're just bitter more people vote for her and her party than any other party in Scotland.

Davidson had a proper car crash interview tonight on STV. She's not very good under pressure as a lot of us suspected.

WengerIn

Shaka_Zulu wrote: »

Most Scots would back an independent Scotland within Europe if faced with the straight choice of going it alone or living under another N Korean leader after Brexit, a new poll has revealed.

Independent Scotland in Europe - 98.2%
N Korean Govt and out of Europe - 1.8%

Here is a poll that gives you over 98%

It has about as much validity as the absurd one you quoted.

It's was from a Google Survey. Google Surveys are those questions you get asked in order to access newspaper articles. They use 'inferred demographics' in order to normalise their sample but if the entire sample comes from a single newspaper website then it's hard to see how you could possibly say the sample is representative.

IveSeenTheLight

To your bold points

.string. wrote: »

Yes hidden away, and misrepresented. The rationale was explained in my post by Hague

Not hidden away at all.
I've heard numerous media coverage, question times, political discussions etc which this was very clearly aired.
Your grasping at straws

.string. wrote: »

BS - Sturgeon & co were not interested in consensus but just in getting their own way . Sturgeon trumpeted a "Compromise" which was simply the usual cynical tactic so loved by the SNP making a transparently impossible demand as a pretext for whingeing when it was not agreed. Several meetings were held between the UK people and those from the devolved administrations and views were exchanged but it is the UK Government that is responsible for negotiating the deal and that is not a subject which can be vetoed by Amy of the devolved administrations.

We are all in the one country, so the EU Referendum result was democratically obtained. Democracy allows everyone in the UK to vote for the decision. Democracy is not a situation where a minority can vetoed the majority

Indeed, you are talking BS.

Theresa May has sent a strong signal that she will prioritise keeping Britain together over a swift exit from the EU, saying she will not trigger divorce proceedings with Brussels until she has secured a “UK-wide approach” to talks with Europe.

Where is that agreement?
Just another instance of saying one thing, doing another.
Just another instance to reflect how untrustworthy May is.

You talk about democracy, but May is not showing democracy leadership qualities.
Its get in line or get out of my way, not something I think works in the modern world.

.string. wrote: »

True, although it can be denied, it has not but the timing of it has not because it will interfere with the obtaining of a result which is good for the UK. Sturgeon is hell bent on having a Referendum before Brexit and before the Scottish election. If Scots in. Referendum want to separate from the UK, it can be at a time when it does not damage those negotiations and when the substance of the deal obtained is known which will be after Brexit, not before.

Nicola Strugeon accepted that and agrees that the timing should be aligned once the Brexit position is resolved.
Your point is therefore moot

.string. wrote: »

A non sequitur there - in any case it was the truth at the time

It was not a non sequitur, the campaign was run on a basis that THE only way to remain in Europe was to remain in the UK.
Clearly a false statement in hindsight.

.string. wrote: »

- in any case it was the truth at the time

As above, clearly it was not the truth and as such your statement is false and therefore opens the door for reassessment now the conditions are firmed up.

.string. wrote: »

So they have requested but the answer is that the time is not right.

As above, the Scottish government have accepted that and want the timing to align with the Brexit negotiations outcome.

Mrs Sturgeon said: “I have said that I want people in Scotland to have an informed choice when the terms of Brexit are clear.

"She has confirmed to me today that that will be in a period from autumn next year to the spring of 2019.

“That would underline my view that is the right timescale.”

.string. wrote: »

As for the rest of the post, it is just vindictivene spin, is it really necessary to post troll cartoons?

To your first point, I don't think it is vindictive spin.
If anything, I was responding to vindictive spin and left it as a differing view perspective.

As for the cartoons, have you ever watched spitting image?
The cartoons are a modern light hearted poke at politicians, with a smuttering of basis behind it which makes them funny.
If you don't see the funny side, maybe you should try taking off the blinkers