The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

Tromking wrote: »

The problem of course is that if you had the pre-2015 number of MP's, you'd be using another method to measure the SNP'S mandate wouldn't you?......the polls perhaps?
Do you and the SNP get lessons in being wantonly disingenuous?
I'm not sure that constantly stating that we were very popular on polling day two years ago is very good politics.
Public opinion is a moveable feast Shakey, people change their minds on stuff y'know.

They do. But 2015 is well gone. For now the SNP speak for more Scots than any other party. Oh and the last Scottish GE vote was 11 months ago in Scotland.

So they currently speak for the next 4 years for more Scots than anyone else in Holyrood. And more Scots than anyone else in Westminster ( which is unlikely to change much in June based on recent polling ).

Constantly wishing really hard it were otherwise is a waste of your time and energy. And others here talking optimistically about 'vote shares' as if any other party is ever held to similar standards.. because they aren't. I can imagine it now.. yes, yes they got x seat, but the 'vote share' fell by 3%. Call indy off now ! Not really going to happen is it ?

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Labour voters have always been the key to independence

Rather than good reasons - I can believe that.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Rather than good reasons - I can believe that.

Unlike in 2014 it's a simple choice now between independence or 'crush the saboteurs' Tory governments persuing god knows what after Brexit unfolds. Half a million Labour voters have a choice to make.

May can't fancy her chances much.

Tromking

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Once those half a million still left give up on Labour, it's bye bye Scotland.

Really?
Plenty of Ex-Labour Scots on twitter, albeit relectantly contemplating voting Tory as a way of reducing the risk of indyref2.
FTP will now seemingly always give a you large rump of MP`s at Westminster, but thats not independence is it?

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Unlike in 2014 it's a simple choice now between independence or 'crush the saboteurs' Tory governments persuing god knows what after Brexit unfolds. Half a million Labour voters have a choice to make.

May can't fancy her chances much.

Precisely what I said in my previous post, statements of the unknown with consistently positive connotations for independence and consistently negative connotations for remaining in the union based on nothing but the posters opinion.

These people you talk of do not think as you do, clearly, otherwise you'd already be independent from 2014. They'll be thinking about their jobs, their mortgage, their taxes, etc... So far the Conservative government has a pretty good track record since 2010 on those issues and none of those issues are addressed by "god knows what", or "who knows what the future holds". They're not arguments, they are statements designed to make the argument against your position go away.

Shaka_Zulu

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Nonsense string. The key issue is not their share on the popular vote at all. It's securing over 50% of 59 MP seats.

How does that get you to your goal of independence?

It is quite conceivable that you get 50% of the 59 seats with only 25% of the popular vote. What that then would signify is that independence is dead in the water.

For the SNP arguments to hold any water they must get damn near 50% of the popular vote otherwise it is game over.

davomcdave

Shakethedisease wrote: »

What on earth are you wittering on about ? If it's in the manifesto and people vote for it what are you going to do ?

You're in a Union with Scotland ( after all if England isn't in a Union what's the UK then ?) not a dictatorship. You don't get to tell people in Scotland what they can and cannot vote for in free and fair elections. If Scots vote for the SNP be it with a referendum or independence in their manifesto then you're just going to have to lump it AND the consequences am afraid. Like Scots have had to do when other nations in this Union vote for Conservatives with Brexit referendums in their manifestos. We have to suck it up. You will too. Sorry.

Either that or find some means of stopping voters putting an X in the box next to the SNP or the Greens ? Scots get a referendum or a vote one way or the other if that's what they vote for. The Scottish Govt will make sure of it one way or another. The SNP and other pro indy parties have been planning for this all their lives. Brexit and this Tory Govt with a huge majority saying No to referendums Scots have actually voted for via political parties offering it, is actually a dream come true scenario for them.

Perhaps it really is time to put it in a manifesto. No section 30 required and no arguments about timing or legalities either. Job done with 35 or so MP's though the figure is likely to be nearer 50. Makes perfect sense !

I hope I haven't wound you up too much but you really need to stop trying to put the Scottish electorate back in it's wee tartan box and told to shut up as a mere inconvenience. We don't like it.

I don't give a flying fox what you like and what you don't. You had your vote and you lost because you had no plan for a currency and you had no plan as to how to wean yourself off the money that Londoners pay to keep Scottish schools and hospitals running.

It's over, you lost. Please just get on with your life. There are no second chances.

davomcdave

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I wouldn't bet on that at all. If voting in 56 MPs out of 59 isn't enough, a pro indy majority at the Scottish Govt isn't enough, nor a bill passed by the Scottish Govt enough, a 62% vote to remain in the EU enough, nor yet another likely SNP majority at Westminster. None of that is enough to justify a referendum what's it to be then ?

What would have been enough would have been winning your referendum. Your lot mucked it up. I'd say I'm sorry but I'm just not.

Next time you have a once in a generation or lifetime opportunity try not to let it slip through your hands. Maybe you could give some advice to the next generation as to how not to let a once in a lifetime or generation opportunity go.

I'd be gutted in your position, gutted. But sometimes you simply have to admit that you screwed up and move on.

Better luck next generation or lifetime.

Shaka_Zulu

SNP trying to turn Scotland into a Police State and use Political Influence to run the Police. Just as the Nazis had a politicised Police force, the Gestapo in the 1930's until their destruction in 1945.

Vote the SNP out in 2017

Police watchdog member quit over SNP interference

kabayiri

An exclusive copy of the next Scottish Indy Ref ballot paper :-

"Do you believe Scotland should be an independent country ?

a) Yes
b) No
c) I abstain (the default SNP response)"