The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

IveSeenTheLight

mollycat wrote: »

Eh?

How would that work.
Quite simply, that we have full autonomy and decision making factors to benefit those in Scotland

People in Scotland dont 'all want and need the same thing you know.
I am a democrat, I just see an opportunity to improve our ability for self determination

Just like the rest of the UK there is a wide and diverse range of political views here.
No disagreement there

Maybe you are one of these people who think it's the specific piece of earth you stand on that defines your character, beliefs and values?
Oh please

I have more in common with a 50+ year old (well almost 50), public sector employee, ex-factory working, housing scheme raised, comprehensive educated person in Stoke, Cardiff, Ballymena or London than I ever will have with you or any of the other pro-indy posters on here. LOL, very interesting.
I fill many of your criteria, maybe you have more in common with me than you think, despite if we have a disagreement in some things

Divisive and dangerous; that's what Scottish nationalism is.
Bordering racist I would say

Commented above

IveSeenTheLight

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Are you just prevaricating?
Because it really is very simple.
The people are vocalising that they do not want a vote.
Yet parliament persists.
Not very democratic, is it?

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/03/15/scottish-independence-voting-intention-no-57-yes-4/

Not at all.
We've seen plenty of recent polls which are in error post voting results.

Democracy occurs in the voting booths, not in a sample poll which has found at times to be very wrong.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

davomcdave wrote: »

You don't get to have a referendum each time something changes.

The Scottish people knew that the Tory party was standing on a platform of a Brexit referendum. The Scottish people knew that there couldn't be an SNP majority in the UK Parliament, The Scottish people knew that the referendum was a "once in a generation or lifetime" event.

You lost. Next generation or lifetime the Scottish people should have a say over whether they remain part of the UK. You don't get a neverendum until you get the result that you crave.

If you want to be independent then don't blow your chance when you had it would be my advice. You tried and you failed.

Again I find myself in agreement with you; I know, it's a rarity.

A generation ........ well, a lifetime may be better.
If only to allow someone the opportunity and time to present a sensible budgetary proposal for an independent Scotland.
I have no desire to become akin to a kilted Greek.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Not at all.
We've seen plenty of recent polls which are in error post voting results.

Democracy occurs in the voting booths, not in a sample poll which has found at times to be very wrong.

Yet the official position is to see polls of 60% + !!!
Again, see earlier posts.
Then tell us please just how many of these there have been, never mind over a sustained period as was originally suggested?

IveSeenTheLight

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

IMHO the public are more and more frequently expecting at least a comprehensive and budgetary-sound plan.
The EU referendum highlighted the propensity for lies which les and less of us find acceptable.
We want the truth.
So perhaps full honest disclosure is a step too far - but it is not naive to expect a far greater degree of honesty than has been seen so far.
With Brexit OR with independence.

I fully agree with you.

I'd far rather respect a politician who gives their opinion, backs it up with open and honest pro's and con's for both sides so we can make decisions based on those facts, not the smoke and mirrors that are presented

IveSeenTheLight

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Yet the official position is to see polls of 60% + !!!
Again, see earlier posts.
Then tell us please just how many of these there have been, never mind over a sustained period as was originally suggested?

What official position on polls?

I take polls with a pinch of salt, demonstrably wrong in recent years and the only poll that matters is one that results in a cross in a box in a voting station

davomcdave

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

IMHO the public are more and more frequently expecting at least a comprehensive and budgetary-sound plan.
The EU referendum highlighted the propensity for lies which les and less of us find acceptable.
We want the truth.
So perhaps full honest disclosure is a step too far - but it is not naive to expect a far greater degree of honesty than has been seen so far.
With Brexit OR with independence.

The problem the SNP has with honesty is that GERS figures show that Scotland would be utterly FUBAR'd without Londoners sending billions of pounds north every year. That and of course there is still no solution to the currency problem (Scottish Groat/Euro Fail/Pound with no influence on monetary policy).

The fact is that Scotland would be in an unholy mess without taxes from London propping it up. Frankly the best hope the SNP has, assuming it wants independence at any price, is that Brexit screws the British economy so badly that there is no perceived difference between a mucked up British economy and the pathetic state that is the Scottish economy ex-oil.

As it goes I think that it is quite possible that Brexit could reduce the English economy to the level of Scotland's but then what do I know, I'm only an economist. Experts? Ptchew,

A_Medium_Size_Jock

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

What official position on polls?

I take polls with a pinch of salt, demonstrably wrong in recent years and the only poll that matters is one that results in a cross in a box in a voting station

See these for an idea:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13877169.SNP_want_polls_to_show_60__support_for_independence_for_a_whole_year_before_calling_referendum/

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-60-support-needed-before-next-independence-referendum-1-3920508

There was no rebuttal BTW.

Yet 18 months on and naughty Nic is pushing, despite no poll achieving that even immediately following the EU referendum.
A few came close then.

Another lie you see, and another reason for increasing discontent with Nicola and the SNP.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

davomcdave wrote: »

The problem the SNP has with honesty is that GERS figures show that Scotland would be utterly FUBAR'd without Londoners sending billions of pounds north every year. That and of course there is still no solution to the currency problem (Scottish Groat/Euro Fail/Pound with no influence on monetary policy).

The fact is that Scotland would be in an unholy mess without taxes from London propping it up. Frankly the best hope the SNP has, assuming it wants independence at any price, is that Brexit screws the British economy so badly that there is no perceived difference between a mucked up British economy and the pathetic state that is the Scottish economy ex-oil.

As it goes I think that it is quite possible that Brexit could reduce the English economy to the level of Scotland's but then what do I know, I'm only an economist. Experts? Ptchew,

You were doing so well until that last paragraph.
So I decline to comment further on economists; that discussion has been had (frequently) elsewhere.

Should Brexit provide a boost to the UK economy as so many have predicted AND the world economy grow as again has been suggested, without significant improvement in the economy of Scotland I see independence as less likely.

More-so if the SNP continue to hold the power as they currently do, because so far they have done very little to improve Scotland's prospects.

IveSeenTheLight

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

See these for an idea:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13877169.SNP_want_polls_to_show_60__support_for_independence_for_a_whole_year_before_calling_referendum/

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-60-support-needed-before-next-independence-referendum-1-3920508

There was no rebuttal BTW.

Yet 18 months on and naughty Nic is pushing, despite no poll achieving that even immediately following the EU referendum.
A few came close then.

Another lie you see, and another reason for increasing discontent with Nicola and the SNP.

A lie, hardly.
Both of those were before the decision of Brexit.
The circumstances are far different now from then

One could argue it was setting a basis (and delay) for when a call for a referendum with no other reasons should be set and reason why NS was not advocating for a referendum at any time