The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

cogito

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Maybe it's time you confronted the real truth of the matter. Brexit in just four days is going t**s up. You all convinced yourselves over the last nine months talking amongst yourselves ( see Brexit thread ) that you could pick and mix whatever you wanted from the EU. The problem being that you forgot to include the EU in your calculations.

May also was banking on Sturgeon bluffing, Oil propping up the £, Whisky the trade deficit/exports and fishing grounds being used as a huge bargaining chip.. which is why she mentioned Spanish fishermen getting a good deal in one of her speeches. May can no longer rely on any of the above, since she needs Scotland still in the UK to provide the collateral.

Davidson misinformed her badly about Nicola Sturgeon bluffing and she was taken by surprise. Now, she is terrified of even holding a vote, relying on fluctuating, ever changing opinion polls asking vague timing questions as 'evidence'. When the only opinion poll that asked a direct question to Scots doesn't want Westminster in charge of any vote OR the timing.

Hence you and I are arguing here over legalities, when the real problem is she's far too scared of allowing Scots voters to answer the question. She thinks there's a good chance she'll lose.

If the Scottish Govt do get the go ahead for a legally valid referendum within their own Scottish remit then union supporters boycotting a legally valid vote is of no relevance, and they cannot complain about the result if they didn't vote. It's like all Tory voters boycotting a General Election then complaining when Labour get in with a majority. If it is deemed legal, and believe me Sturgeon will not go ahead with anything that isn't.. then they'd better get down to that polling booth sharpish.

You really should stop letting your imagination get the better of you.

Tromking

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Maybe it's time you confronted the real truth of the matter. Brexit in just four days is going t**s up. You all convinced yourselves over the last nine months talking amongst yourselves ( see Brexit thread ) that you could pick and mix whatever you wanted from the EU. The problem being that you forgot to include the EU in your calculations.

May also was banking on Sturgeon bluffing, Oil propping up the £, Whisky the trade deficit/exports and fishing grounds being used as a huge bargaining chip.. which is why she mentioned Spanish fishermen getting a good deal in one of her speeches. May can no longer rely on any of the above, since she needs Scotland still in the UK to provide the collateral.

Davidson misinformed her badly about Nicola Sturgeon bluffing and she was taken by surprise. Now, she is terrified of even holding a vote, relying on fluctuating, ever changing opinion polls asking vague timing questions as 'evidence'. When the only opinion poll that asked a direct question to Scots doesn't want Westminster in charge of any vote OR the timing.

Hence you and I are arguing here over legalities, when the real problem is she's far too scared of allowing Scots voters to answer the question. She thinks there's a good chance she'll lose.

If the Scottish Govt do get the go ahead for a legally valid referendum within their own Scottish remit then union supporters boycotting a legally valid vote is of no relevance, and they cannot complain about the result if they didn't vote. It's like all Tory voters boycotting a General Election then complaining when Labour get in with a majority. If it is deemed legal, and believe me Sturgeon will not go ahead with anything that isn't.. then they'd better get down to that polling booth sharpish.

There you go again, thinking that Sturgeon, the SNP and indeed yourself are speaking for the whole of Scotland.
Sturgeon's only hope is that Brexit is an unmitigated disaster and Scotland alone decides to cut and run from that decision and go for independence, a more likely scenario in that instance is that the whole of the UK collectively 'changes its mind' and reverses the Brexit decision.
It's more likely that Brexit is generally a benign experience, the people of Scotland continue to become frustrated with a lack of focus by the SNP on the day to day running of Scotland and are eternally grateful that Strurgeon's incompetence is abrogated by the pooling and sharing of risks and resources with their kith and kin in the rUK.
However you can spin it how you like!

Shaka_Zulu

Shaka_Zulu

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Maybe it's time you confronted the real truth of the matter. Brexit in just four days is going t**s up. You all convinced yourselves over the last nine months talking amongst yourselves ( see Brexit thread ) that you could pick and mix whatever you wanted from the EU. The problem being that you forgot to include the EU in your calculations.

May also was banking on Sturgeon bluffing, Oil propping up the £, Whisky the trade deficit/exports and fishing grounds being used as a huge bargaining chip.. which is why she mentioned Spanish fishermen getting a good deal in one of her speeches. May can no longer rely on any of the above, since she needs Scotland still in the UK to provide the collateral.

Davidson misinformed her badly about Nicola Sturgeon bluffing and she was taken by surprise. Now, she is terrified of even holding a vote, relying on fluctuating, ever changing opinion polls asking vague timing questions as 'evidence'. When the only opinion poll that asked a direct question to Scots doesn't want Westminster in charge of any vote OR the timing.

Hence you and I are arguing here over legalities, when the real problem is she's far too scared of allowing Scots voters to answer the question. She thinks there's a good chance she'll lose.

If the Scottish Govt do get the go ahead for a legally valid referendum within their own Scottish remit then union supporters boycotting a legally valid vote is of no relevance, and they cannot complain about the result if they didn't vote. It's like all Tory voters boycotting a General Election then complaining when Labour get in with a majority. If it is deemed legal, and believe me Sturgeon will not go ahead with anything that isn't.. then they'd better get down to that polling booth sharpish.

That's wishful thinking.

Regardless of your interpretation of the personal battle between May and Sturgeon - as I couldn't care any less about it - lets address the circumstances.

The Scottish government has voted for a Section 30. So that's where we are right now, there is nothing, absolutely nothing that has passed through Holyrood saying they want a unilateral referendum on a reserved matter. But here you are, on here telling all and sundry it's as inevitable as death and taxes. Who is making the leap?

Then when we engage with you on that, with the likes of myself, antrobus and string pointing out that the words of the Scotland act itself prohibits your suggestion it's a complete irrelevance because it doesn't fit into your chosen perspective.

The unionists in Scotland boycotting a vote called by Holyrood on reserved matters without Westminster consent will put the turnout around or below 50% at best. That alongside the legalese in the Scotland act and the fact they intentionally and knowingly bypassed the legal framework that exists to grant that request would see the Scottish government in the dock, either against Westminster or more likely in my opinion a private Scottish citizen as with Gina Miller a precedent was set there. But the SNP and the independence movement speak for all of Scotland and she's a better person than May so that could never happen - right?

If you want to talk about Brexit then lets engage on the Brexit thread. Some from this thread have attempted to and I don't believe I've been made to look foolish by throwing around statistics I don't understand or without context, rather the other way around. I'd like to know on that thread how you think it's all going wrong after 4 days, because as far as I can tell there's a long way to go and it seems absolutely fine right now.

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Maybe it's time you confronted the real truth of the matter. Brexit in just four days is going t**s up. You all convinced yourselves over the last nine months talking amongst yourselves ( see Brexit thread ) that you could pick and mix whatever you wanted from the EU. The problem being that you forgot to include the EU in your calculations.
...

Why don't you remind us of your recent predictions on the recent Scottish indy ref, or the UK General Election (much talk of coallitions and balance of power), or the EU referendum?

You seem to think you're in touch with the general public mood, but the evidence suggests otherwise.

Let's just look at some timescales.

We have been in the EU for 16,164 days.

We voted to leave the EU 285 days ago

We have over 700 days to agree A50.

...and you make a judgement just 4 days in.

Why the rush?

mollycat

kabayiri wrote: »

Why the rush?

Propaganda?

Spin?

To exploit short-termism in the same way that the gullible are told Independence is good because it gets rid of a tory government?

Obvious possibilities to what I appreciate was a rhetorical question

davomcdave

According to the Scottish Government Scotland made a cash loss on oil and gas production in FY 2015/-6:

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/oilgas1516

Revenues: £13,395
Opex: £6,755
Capex: £10,168

Taxes paid on that loss were £60 million.

TrickyTree83

davomcdave wrote: »

According to the Scottish Government Scotland made a cash loss on oil and gas production in FY 2015/-6:

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/oilgas1516

Revenues: £13,395
Opex: £6,755
Capex: £10,168

Taxes paid on that loss were £60 million.

It's from gov.scot they won't believe it.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

That's wishful thinking.

Regardless of your interpretation of the personal battle between May and Sturgeon - as I couldn't care any less about it - lets address the circumstances.

The Scottish government has voted for a Section 30. So that's where we are right now, there is nothing, absolutely nothing that has passed through Holyrood saying they want a unilateral referendum on a reserved matter. But here you are, on here telling all and sundry it's as inevitable as death and taxes. Who is making the leap?

Sturgeon has asked for a Section 30 in order to follow the precedence of the last referendum. Cameron offered it off his own back last time round.. but Salmond was always going to hold a referendum no matter what Cameron said. The SNP have never accepted that any Scottish referendum, voted for in Scotland ( via a manifesto ) by Scots voters could only be allowed to take place via another parliament's say so. It goes against every single principle and definition both legal and political of self determination going.

The act of holding a referendum in itself, does not change the constitution. The two are completely separate legally speaking.

Then when we engage with you on that, with the likes of myself, antrobus and string pointing out that the words of the Scotland act itself prohibits your suggestion it's a complete irrelevance because it doesn't fit into your chosen perspective.

Nothing you say is relevant. Because you cannot see the difference between holding a legally valid referendum, and changing the constitution.

The unionists in Scotland boycotting a vote called by Holyrood on reserved matters without Westminster consent will put the turnout around or below 50% at best. That alongside the legalese in the Scotland act and the fact they intentionally and knowingly bypassed the legal framework that exists to grant that request would see the Scottish government in the dock, either against Westminster or more likely in my opinion a private Scottish citizen as with Gina Miller a precedent was set there. But the SNP and the independence movement speak for all of Scotland and she's a better person than May so that could never happen - right?

I expect that should the Scottish Govt go ahead with a Holyrood mandated referendum, that they'll take it to court first before holding it in order to clarify matters. Which is why I said in my last post that Sturgeon would not go ahead with anything that is not deemed legal. Should it be deemed legal, then unionist's boycotting it would be stupid in the extreme, since the result would be valid.

I don't know if this is what the Scottish Govt have planned. It might well be something else, or even just waiting until pressure builds up from Scots gagging to get out of the UK if Brexit looks like being a no deal or whatever.

If you want to talk about Brexit then lets engage on the Brexit thread. Some from this thread have attempted to and I don't believe I've been made to look foolish by throwing around statistics I don't understand or without context, rather the other way around. I'd like to know on that thread how you think it's all going wrong after 4 days, because as far as I can tell there's a long way to go and it seems absolutely fine right now.

Talking about how Brexit affects Scotland belongs in a Scotland based thread.