The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Must we really have to go over and over the same Express and Telegraph articles that they've been printing for the last 6 years string ? *loses will to live*

<--- hint, this fella isn't Spain. Learn to read past the headlines ? Plus the Express always crashes my web browser.

It's the same as the selective headlines from selective Spanish representatives that you push in support of Scottish EU membership.

But isn't that irrelevant since you won't be applying to rejoin the EU straight away? Anything can happen in the future, there could be a complete moratorium on new members for 50 years.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

If this is true, what a climb down!

It's gone from:

- Full EU membership

to

- EEA/EFTA membership

to

- actually the deal as part of Brexit might work

However I will say, to her credit this is what compromise actually looks like if she is indeed entertaining Brexit + the negotiated deal. Compromise did not look like messing with Brexit negotiations by calling a referendum or insisting that single market membership is a red line when clearly that doesn't have to be the case, no one voted for that.

Nah, it just means Sturgeon goes ahead pushing for another vote as she planned Autumn 2018-Spring 2019. Because Sturgeon by going through every other option within the UK first.. has proved without a doubt to Scots voters that the only way now to retain Single Market and or EU membership is via an independence vote.

None of the options you list above are now possible as part of the UK. Sturgeon has carefully worked through all options and allowed May herself to close them down. There's only one left for those in Scotland who don't wish to leave the EU or are worried about losing Single Market membership. Either as individuals, small/large businesses or even entire sectors ( agriculture/science/tourism/financial ) with vested interests in staying put.

We'll see how things play out over the next few months. May better come home with a hellava deal. :cool:

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

...
We'll see how things play out over the next few months. May better come home with a hellava deal. :cool:

Suppose...that the deal incorporates a number of transition plans, aimed at easing the breaking of arrangements between UK and the EU.

How does Sturgeon counter that?

Would she wait until this transition period has completed?

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

It's the same as the selective headlines from selective Spanish representatives that you push in support of Scottish EU membership.

But isn't that irrelevant since you won't be applying to rejoin the EU straight away? Anything can happen in the future, there could be a complete moratorium on new members for 50 years.

It's seamless Single Market membership that is the absolute top priority to start with. We'll all have to wait and see what the joint EU's position is over the coming months regarding both NI and Scotland.

But above all the opportunity to either remain OR rejoin the EU should and will be there if Scotland votes for independence. Something that will no longer be possible within the UK after Wednesday. And should Scotland vote for independence then it's future relationship within the EU/EEA or Single Market will no longer be any of your concern. But just so we're clear, it's Single Market membership that is Sturgeon's No1 aim and priority at the present time. Because it's by far the best launching pad to further opportunities and choice after independence.

The Telegraph and the Express have been punting the same headlines for years now. At least the recent Daily Record/Herald articles added something new to the debate.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

Suppose...that the deal incorporates a number of transition plans, aimed at easing the breaking of arrangements between UK and the EU.

How does Sturgeon counter that?

Would she wait until this transition period has completed?

No. Her mandate for a second ref ends in May 2021 ( why May is trying to delay a vote until afterwards ). She'll call a vote well before then on the basis of getting out of the UK before leaving the Single Market hits the fan for Scottish vested interests.

Sturgeon isn't interested in the slightest in making things comfy for May. She wants Scotland's current economic interests within the Single Market protected and as seamlessly as possible.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It's seamless Single Market membership that is the absolute top priority to start with. We'll all have to wait and see what the joint EU's position is over the coming months regarding both NI and Scotland.

But above all the opportunity to either remain OR rejoin the EU should and will be there if Scotland votes for independence. Something that will no longer be possible within the UK after Wednesday. And should Scotland vote for independence then it's future relationship within the EU/EEA or Single Market will no longer be any of your concern. But just so we're clear, it's Single Market membership that is Sturgeon's No1 aim and priority at the present time. Because it's by far the best launching pad to further opportunities and choice after independence.

The Telegraph and the Express have been punting the same headlines for years now. At least the recent Daily Record/Herald articles added something new to the debate.

I'm certain I'm not the first and won't be the last to point out that no-one voted to remain in the Single Market in Scotland. Nicola is therefore the Scottish version of that which you deride in Theresa May. Taking a result and running with their interpretation of it.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No. Her mandate for a second ref ends in May 2021 ( why May is trying to delay a vote until afterwards ). She'll call a vote well before then on the basis of getting out of the UK before leaving the Single Market hits the fan for Scottish vested interests.

Sturgeon isn't interested in the slightest in making things comfy for May. She wants Scotland's current economic interests within the Single Market protected and as seamlessly as possible.

Ooh, must resist the temptation to delve back into those economic statistics showing how important the SM really is for Scotland.

kabayiri

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Ooh, must resist the temptation to delve back into those economic statistics showing how important the SM really is for Scotland.

Scotland isn't China! It isn't a landscape defined by factories producing all manner of goods as far as the eye can see.

Somewhere like Stoke has more of a single market argument, given that 50% of the pottery produced is destined to go to the EU currently.

I know Shakey is fond of the wind turbines / renewables answer, but there is no major turbine manufacturer in Scotland either.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I'm certain I'm not the first and won't be the last to point out that no-one voted to remain in the Single Market in Scotland. Nicola is therefore the Scottish version of that which you deride in Theresa May. Taking a result and running with their interpretation of it.

Tell that to the farmers when they lose their subsidies and go onto WTO tariffs. Or science dept's who lose funding etc etc. It's no longer how people voted last June that's now your/May's problem. It's how people will vote in Scotland if Brexit doesn't go to their liking and there's another ballot paper put in front of them.

The Scottish Govt will vote to put that ballot paper in front of Scots tomorrow.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

Scotland isn't China! It isn't a landscape defined by factories producing all manner of goods as far as the eye can see.

Somewhere like Stoke has more of a single market argument, given that 50% of the pottery produced is destined to go to the EU currently.

I know Shakey is fond of the wind turbines / renewables answer, but there is no major turbine manufacturer in Scotland either.

Who said Scotland was China lol. This is about an economic status quo and staying within it. See below. It's a stark visual isn't it.