The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

kabayiri

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

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Edit: And Nicola wants to remain in the single market only now? What happened to the will of Scots to remain in the EU?
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No, no. It's very clear

Nicola wants to stay in the EU.

Or is it the EEA ?

Ah, well. It probably begins with "E", whatever it is!

Shakethedisease

mrginge wrote: »

Be pretty easy to ignore the result of a referendum where only one side participates.

Not if the Scottish Govt make 100% clear at the outset that they will act on the results of the vote no matter what the turnout. Only those who vote matter. .

Scotland isn't Catalonia.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Not if the Scottish Govt make 100% clear at the outset that they will act on the results of the vote no matter what the turnout.

Who is going to take the SNP seriously for the foreseeable future? We all know that that they'll be another reason to justify another vote soon enough.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Your echo chamber does you no favours.

How is it going to be 'a toughy' to argue that a referendum on constitutional arrangements held without agreement from Westminster who are in control of constitutional arrangements is not legal?

Edit: And Nicola wants to remain in the single market only now? What happened to the will of Scots to remain in the EU?

You make it up as you go along don't you? Like when we said you won't be able to "remain" but you were adamant that there will be no "re-applying". You've now changed your tune.

Nope. I'm reading the situation correctly. An interim Single Market deal while still within it with a fast track route into the EU. This is what the Scottish Govt are going after. It's also why they will hold a referendum while Scotland is still in the Single Market and not after the UK has left. Finland so far has the quickest accession taking three years to join the EU. Scotland is likely to be quicker.

It's so blindingly obvious I fail to see how you can miss it. Everything Sturgeon has done in the last 9 months from putting proposals to May to calling this ref is all about staying in the Single Market in the interim. Her proposals to the PM in December even conceded full EU membership in order to do so.

The SNP do want to stay in the EU and the Single Market. Staying the UK is a dead end on both fronts now. So independence, a transitional deal staying in the Single Market with an obvious fast track route into the EU is now necessary. With transitional deal talks while still within the over riding priority.

The Scots Govt have no barriers to holding their own referendum. It's the results that will have to be dealt with if there's a Yes vote. May has misread this badly imo. From Sturgeon bluffing to assuming that Barruso's comments are going to make any difference to the timing. Sturgeon wants Single Market membership first and foremost. And she wants talks to start while Scotland is still in, not after the UK has left.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Who is going to take the SNP seriously for the foreseeable future? We all know that that they'll be another reason to justify another vote soon enough.

About half the country ( Scotland ) who now vote for what they offer in their manifesto's. At least Sturgeon is sticking to hers, unlike May whose manifesto promised to stay in the Single Market.

posh*spice

Clifford_Pope wrote: »

Sturgeon is playing her last card because it's the only one left. What she has overlooked is that English sentiment has moved since the last independence referendum, and no one now cares very much whether Scotland stays in the Union or not.
So if that's how they want it the Scots are perfectly entitled to spend the next two years wasting time in pointless, devisive and damaging electioneering, when they could be lead by a responsible and less blinkered government that was actually going to address the faults in the lagging Scottish economy.
Scottish business could be spending the time usefully cooperating with government-led economic growth and preparing for the undoubted challenges of Brexit. But if the country isn't interested in that and prefers the exitement of continuous electioneering, then good luck to them.
No one else in the UK now cares very much. Nor it seems does the EU, after the dead silence Sturgeon's last tour of European countries produced.

Good post. Pretty much sums up what i think too. This time it is going to way less stressful for RUK because at least Scotland won't be trying to hang on to the pound.

By the way, nats you really should more closely at the Euro - nearly all countries have strong movements to leave it....

Bon voyage Scotland.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

unlike May whose manifesto promised to stay in the Single Market.

Sometimes you really do show your naivety. The negotiations haven't even started yet.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Nope. I'm reading the situation correctly. An interim Single Market deal while still within it with a fast track route into the EU. This is what the Scottish Govt are going after. It's also why they will hold a referendum while Scotland is still in the Single Market and not after the UK has left. Finland so far has the quickest accession taking three years to join the EU. Scotland is likely to be quicker.

It's so blindingly obvious I fail to see how you can miss it. Everything Sturgeon has done in the last 9 months from putting proposals to May to calling this ref is all about staying in the Single Market in the interim. Her proposals to the PM in December even conceded full EU membership in order to do so.

The SNP do want to stay in the EU and the Single Market. Staying the UK is a dead end on both fronts now. So independence, a transitional deal staying in the Single Market with an obvious fast track route into the EU is now necessary. With transitional deal talks while still within the over riding priority.

The Scots Govt have no barriers to holding their own referendum. It's the results that will have to be dealt with if there's a Yes vote. May has misread this badly imo. From Sturgeon bluffing to assuming that Barruso's comments are going to make any difference to the timing. Sturgeon wants Single Market membership first and foremost. And she wants talks to start while Scotland is still in, not after the UK has left.

Necessary for who?

People who voted to remain in the EU? What about those who voted to remain in the EU but also want to stay in the UK? What about all the people who voted to leave the EU and will not want to re-join it, even if it means letting go of the independence dream. I've read plenty of those on twitter today, individuals coming out saying how Nicola's got this all wrong.

I know that you and I will never swap perspectives, both of us are quite entrenched but I wouldn't presume to say "I'm reading the situation correctly" if I've had to 180 on things I'd predicted beforehand on this very thread. To me it looks very much like you've clung on to any thread of thought that makes the unlikely likely, the unpopular popular or the impossible possible to make the dream come true. Whereas I'd argue that I've tried my hardest to stick to the rules where they can be read, the statistics from official sources and articles where they can be verified and tested. I've not drawn my conclusions from much else, I did say that I think a referendum wouldn't happen, and there's a strong chance that it won't. Not a legally binding one, and a non-legally binding referendum instituted by the Scottish government on constitutional matters is in direct contravention of the reserved powers of Westminster, in effect a political coup. Which would be illegal should the result be contested in court, and as we've seen from Gina Miller, that doesn't have to be done by 'nasty' Westminster for that to happen.

Enterprise_1701C

May did not have a manifesto.

The Conservatives said "we say yes to the single market". I don't read that as a promise to stay in under any circumstances, it shows a desire to stay in.

We would like to stay in the single market, but if it proves impossible due to the intransigence of the eu then it wont be the end of the world.

A lot of imports would no longer be subject to EU tariffs, and we could possibly trade on fairer terms with places like Africa.

All we can do is await the outcome of negotiations, the eu have a lot to lose so we really do not need to be told by anyone that we have to give any mileage to them before the talks start. If we end up on WTO terms then that is fine, after all we have the choice to buy from elsewhere or even, shock/horror, buy British when available.

As far as I am concerned Scotland can go off on their own and sulk in a corner, cant see eu taking them in while they are flat broke, and it will be hard to get close to 3% deficit when they have no income.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Sometimes you really do show your naivety. The negotiations haven't even started yet.

Single Market = FOM

Scottish Govt want full Single Market membership as they have now. Vague 'access to' promises aren't really going to be enough.