The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Not really much to do with the Single Market and the EU though. Economic activity within the UK isn't exports. France in particular seems to like importing Whisky.

http://foodanddrink.scotsman.com/drink/whisky/the-biggest-importer-of-scotch-whisky-may-surprise-you/

Whisky is a nearly a quarter/or a fifth if you prefer of all food and drink exports from the UK. You can understand why Sturgeon isn't keen on leaving the Single Market in the next two years and taking a leap in the dark with all those jobs at stake and only Theresa May's vague promises as assurance. I guess the same will go for Salmon, tourism and a host of other things that may change as a result.

And anyway, Scotland doesn't want to be a reduced to a negotiating pawn in May, Johnson, Davies and Fox's jolly poker game. As it appears now.

It's an impact sure, there was an economist you or someone else quoted as saying 65,000 jobs would rely on single market membership. That may be true, but vastly more, many times more rely on the UK integrated market.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

It's an impact sure, there was an economist you or someone else quoted as saying 65,000 jobs would rely on single market membership. That may be true, but vastly more, many times more rely on the UK integrated market.

Well that's not going to stop overnight, especially when a fair proportion is oil and gas. It's not either or and it's disingenuous to keep punting it as such. Scotland would undoubtedly have access to both on a continuing basis. The EU single market is the status quo. It's the rUK one that might go t**s up depending on what deal is done. Davies seems a little desperate.

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TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Well that's not going to stop overnight, especially when a fair proportion is oil and gas. It's not either or and it's disingenuous to keep punting it as such. Scotland would undoubtedly have access to both on a continuing basis. The EU single market is the status quo. It's the rUK one that might go t**s up depending on what deal is done. Davies seems a little desperate.

They wouldn't stop overnight.

You have less to lose and more to gain with one option, and it's not independence.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

They wouldn't stop overnight.

You have less to lose and more to gain with one option, and it's not independence.

Let's think this through shall we. Scotland sticks with the UK and over the coming years we can look forward to years of uncertainty over trade with the EU and other nations, Westminster/the Tories trampling all over Holyrood over ruling the Scottish parliament on matters such as human rights, the Great Repeal bill and possibly taking back control of fishing and agriculture powers from Holyrood.

Or, Scotland leaves the UK, and has the status quo of full unfettered EU trade as is, Westminster no longer able to impose laws regardless of Holyrood/Scotland's voter's wishes and total control over all economic areas. With only trade with rUK to worry about, who in turn is already facing years of uncertainty over trade with the EU ( inc Scotland ).

Hmmmm... difficult choice.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Let's think this through shall we. Scotland sticks with the UK and over the coming years we can look forward to years of uncertainty over trade with the EU and other nations, Westminster/the Tories trampling all over Holyrood over ruling the Scottish parliament on matters such as human rights, the Great Repeal bill and possibly taking back control of fishing and agriculture powers from Holyrood.

Or, Scotland leaves the UK, and has the status quo of full unfettered EU trade as is, Westminster no longer able to impose laws regardless of Holyrood/Scotland's voter's wishes and total control over all economic areas. With only trade with rUK to worry about, who in turn is already facing years of uncertainty over trade with the EU ( inc Scotland ).

Hmmmm... difficult choice.

lets see

the alternatives are between scotland continuing to receive massive handouts from the english, scotland having a major say in the UK wide laws, scotland getting preferential treatment for UK state jobs, scotland having amssive control over most of her laws and with further devolved power likely

or the certainty of the EU controlling scotland fishing and agriculture, the EU controlling scotland's laws, declining trade with the EU, scotland unable to trade freely with non-EU countries, massive political uncertainty in EU, scotland having a miniscule vote in the EU................

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Let's think this through shall we. Scotland sticks with the UK and over the coming years we can look forward to years of uncertainty over trade with the EU and other nations, Westminster/the Tories trampling all over Holyrood over ruling the Scottish parliament on matters such as human rights, the Great Repeal bill and possibly taking back control of fishing and agriculture powers from Holyrood.

Or, Scotland leaves the UK, and has the status quo of full unfettered EU trade as is, Westminster no longer able to impose laws regardless of Holyrood/Scotland's voter's wishes and total control over all economic areas. With only trade with rUK to worry about, who in turn is already facing years of uncertainty over trade with the EU ( inc Scotland ).

Hmmmm... difficult choice.

I thought we'd established that truth is better?

Those two paragraphs are very biased, and I would assert incorrect interpretations. They are not the choices on offer in the event of another independence referendum.

Conrad

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Let's think this through shall we. Scotland sticks with the UK and over the coming years we can look forward to years of uncertainty over trade with the EU and other nations, Westminster/the Tories trampling all over Holyrood over ruling the Scottish parliament on matters such as human rights, the Great Repeal bill and possibly taking back control of fishing and agriculture powers from Holyrood.

Or, Scotland leaves the UK, and has the status quo of full unfettered EU trade as is, Westminster no longer able to impose laws regardless of Holyrood/Scotland's voter's wishes and total control over all economic areas. With only trade with rUK to worry about, who in turn is already facing years of uncertainty over trade with the EU ( inc Scotland ).

Hmmmm... difficult choice.

Why do you choose to ignore the many uncertainties facing the EU?


+ Italian banking collapse and huge knock-on effects
+ Other EU nations voting out
+ The rise of the far right across Europe
+ Ad-hoc border walls and fences going up
etc

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I thought we'd established that truth is better?

Those two paragraphs are very biased, and I would assert incorrect interpretations. They are not the choices on offer in the event of another independence referendum.

Well again, lets break it down.

Scotland sticks with the UK and over the coming years we can look forward to years of uncertainty over trade with the EU and other nations :- Fact. We've already had 6 full months of it, and Article 50 hasn't even been triggered yet.

Westminster/the Tories trampling all over Holyrood over ruling the Scottish parliament on matters such as human rights :- Holyrood would vote against this. Westminster would have to impose.

the Great Repeal bill. :- Holyrood would vote against this. Westminster would have to impose.

and possibly taking back control of fishing and agriculture powers from Holyrood. :- Holyrood would vote against this.Westminster would have to impose, and there's already talk of doing so in the interests of competition Scotland/rUK.

These laws won't pass themselves onto Holyrood devolved legislation you know. And if Holyrood won't vote them through, who else do you think is going to ?

Or, Scotland leaves the UK, and has the status quo of full unfettered EU trade as is. :- True.

Westminster no longer able to impose laws regardless of Holyrood/Scotland's voter's wishes. :- True.

and total control over all economic areas. :- True.

With only trade with rUK to worry about. :-True.

who in turn is already facing years of uncertainty over trade with the EU ( inc Scotland ). :- True.

Which bits of the above are you questioning as untrue or not factual ?

mrginge

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Let's think this through shall we. Scotland sticks with the UK and over the coming years we can look forward to years of uncertainty over trade with the EU and other nations, Westminster/the Tories trampling all over Holyrood over ruling the Scottish parliament on matters such as human rights, the Great Repeal bill and possibly taking back control of fishing and agriculture powers from Holyrood.

Or, Scotland leaves the UK, and has the status quo of full unfettered EU trade as is, Westminster no longer able to impose laws regardless of Holyrood/Scotland's voter's wishes and total control over all economic areas. With only trade with rUK to worry about, who in turn is already facing years of uncertainty over trade with the EU ( inc Scotland ).

Hmmmm... difficult choice.

Just remind me, when did the EU guarantee Scotland would be able to remain in the EU?

Shakethedisease

Conrad wrote: »

Why do you choose to ignore the many uncertainties facing the EU?


+ Italian banking collapse and huge knock-on effects
+ Other EU nations voting out
+ The rise of the far right across Europe

You're speculating. I'd agree with the far right point, but I'd include the UK to a degree in that to be honest. And anyway, Tricky was talking about trade rather than political issues. He seems to think that this will take precedence over all else. Even though both you and I know this isn't the case, both the politics and the economics matter.