The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

kabayiri wrote: »

That's right. Be dismissive to local issues which people are concerned with.

People are quite right to be concerned at lack of investment in their local communities.

But blaming EU immigrants for it is factually incorrect and dog whistle politics of the worst kind - and letting such facile arguments stand unchallenged would be morally indefensible.

The reality is that the bigots and racists have managed to whip up quite a successful campaign of blaming 'the other' for our own home grown failures and a large percentage of the population have been conned by it - as evidenced by the success of Trump and Brexit - but it's no more right today than it was 80 years ago.

Xenophobia and racism are learned behaviours, and it's perfectly possible to whip up deeply irrational and intolerant hysteria about 'the other' and 'the foreigner' in a population even when that hysteria is completely based on lies and fallacies - as today's concerns about EU immigration wholly are.

History is full of examples...

And objectively speaking the 'Great Immigrant Panic' of this decade....




...... is no different to the Great Immigrant Panic of previous decades.....






The more things change - the more they stay the same.

Sadly.

sss555s

kabayiri wrote: »

Complete rubbish.

You don't live in [STRIKE]an area with a big population rise[/STRIKE] Scotland, yet you preach to those who do.

You have no skin in the game, as far as I'm concerned.

Move to an area that does, or stop preaching.

To whom it may concern, corrected part in bold

elantan

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

The problem with your 'theory' is that the claims you make are almost entirely spurious.

There are only a tiny handful of areas in the UK where the proportion of EU migrants living there is even in double digits.

Vanishingly small numbers of people in Britain actually experience big population rises of EU migrants.

There is no legitimate concern to be had about EU migrants driving down pay on average (they don't), taking our jobs (they don't), noticeably increasing hospital waiting lists (they don't), or clogging up services (they don't).

The number of school age children is several million lower today than it was when I was a child - so claiming that we have too many children to cope with in schools is utterly bogus.

And the biggest element by far for increased demand on the NHS is our very own elderly - thankfully there are of course enough staff to care for them in the NHS - but only thanks to immigration.

Can I just add it's also thanks to students that we have a working NHS ... student nurses, csw''s both unpaid make up a portion in the workforce, also FY1 and FY2 ( who do get paid) are the junior doctors who are still classed as learning. I'm not sure about porters and domestics etc working for no pay but I do know of the CSW and student nurse

With out them and the immigrants that work in our NHS there would be no workable NHS to speak of

CLAPTON

elantan wrote: »

Can I just add it's also thanks to students that we have a working NHS ... student nurses, csw''s both unpaid make up a portion in the workforce, also FY1 and FY2 ( who do get paid) are the junior doctors who are still classed as learning. I'm not sure about porters and domestics etc working for no pay but I do know of the CSW and student nurse

With out them and the immigrants that work in our NHS there would be no workable NHS to speak of

I does seem strange to me, that you are proud that scotland doesn't train sufficient doctors and nurses to meet the needs of the scottish people but relies on importing people instead.
As I've repeatly posted, the availability of cheap imported plentiful labour drive down the need to produce quality training for the people of the UK.

kabayiri

sss555s wrote: »

To whom it may concern, corrected part in bold

I am someone who has said that independence is a choice for the Scots. You need to plan another referendum and win it first.

.string.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

The "Facts" are not in dispute from me.

It's likely an Indy Scotland will mean eye watering levels of austerity and a significant and ongoing financial loss for most people.

But if that's what it takes to stay in the EU/Single Market and disassociate ourselves from the backward looking isolationism and racism now sadly so prevalent in England it's a price worth paying.

The first part of that post prompts me to a ask you, Hamish, if you approve of the attempts being made to hide the true economic situation from the Scottish people. It also prompts me to ask, if it's not too personal a question, whether you live in Scotland.

The tone of the second part which is a general insult of the UK has very rarely, if ever, been used on this thread to insult Scots. Insults generally abound for the SNP alone. You've dragged us towards the gutter there.

I note the people who thanked you. I wonder if they admired your candour about economics or simply revelled in the insult.

.string.

I am astonished! While automatically distrusting anything that Stugeon does, I'm drawn to the report that Nicola Sturgeon could halt Brexit through ruling in European court

That would have all all sorts of implications.

Yup - initially I like that.

But not for exactly the same reasons as Sturgeon I suspect.

Go for it Nicola; go for it now.

sss555s

.string. wrote: »

I am astonished! While automatically distrusting anything that Stugeon does, I'm drawn to the report that Nicola Sturgeon could halt Brexit through ruling in European court

That would have all all sorts of implications.

Yup - initially I like that.

But not for exactly the same reasons as Sturgeon I suspect.

Go for it Nicola; go for it now.

Your post seems a bit misleading.
The article quotes that Jolyon Maugham (A barrister at Devereux Chanbers) is suggesting that Nicola Sturgeon could halt Brexit. There is nothing at all quoted from Sturgeon.

It looks like a bit of wishful thinking from Maugham judging by other things he has wrote.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

The tone of the second part which is a general insult of the UK has very rarely, if ever, been used on this thread to insult Scots. Insults generally abound for the SNP alone. You've dragged us towards the gutter there.

I note the people who thanked you. I wonder if they admired your candour about economics or simply revelled in the insult.

I thanked Hamish. This wasn't an insult, those newspaper headlines are real. An honestly for me, a bit frightening in the way English media, and the politics ( Tory conference/foreigner lists ) seems to be heading in the space of a few short months. Maybe you're too close to it all or even to used too seeing it perhaps ?

But from the Scottish perspective and outside of those headlines ( we get different versions up here of the popular newspapers ). It's all gone a bit off the scale about immigrants. Probably because no political party or media outlet has ever actively weaponised or targeted them the same way. Nor the EU come to that.

I thanked Hamish because imo he's only pointing out what a lot of Scots are thinking. It's not YOU. It's what you're being fed daily media wise, and the Tory party conference kind of went along with. Then High Court judges being painted as 'enemies of the people', and the Tories refusing to condemn it... It's all a bit worrying in a 1930's kind of way.

Am far from reveling believe me. Sometimes am horrified. I suppose these days people like me are just dismissed as SJW's and wishy washy liberal's.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

.string. wrote: »

The first part of that post prompts me to a ask you, Hamish, if you approve of the attempts being made to hide the true economic situation from the Scottish people. It also prompts me to ask, if it's not too personal a question, whether you live in Scotland.

Of course I don't approve of any attempts to hide the economic reality from people - I've been pointing it out in some detail for many years - just as I didn't approve of the extraordinary dishonesty deployed by the leave campaign in the EU ref and I pointed that out too.

Yes, I live in Scotland, and yes I'd be one of those with the most to lose financially....

But frankly if the choice is between remaining in an isolationist and increasingly diminished UK that is out of the EU and single market, or an Indy Scotland that remains in the EU/single market albeit with some financial pain - it's a price worth paying.

.string. wrote: »

The tone of the second part which is a general insult of the UK has very rarely, if ever, been used on this thread to insult Scots. Insults generally abound for the SNP alone. You've dragged us towards the gutter there.

I note the people who thanked you. I wonder if they admired your candour about economics or simply revelled in the insult.

The second part is not an insult - just a statement of fact.

There has been an extraordinary rise in bigotry, xenophobia, and racism in England over the last year.

Whether the people displaying it have always been that way inclined and now feel safe saying it publicly following the nasty tone of the EU ref - or have just been conned by the lies and fear peddled by so many Brexiteers I can't say.... but the result is indisputable.

There was a sharp increase in the number of racially or religiously aggravated crimes recorded by police in England and Wales following the EU referendum.

In July 2016, police recorded a 41 per cent increase compared to the same month the year before, according to a Home Office report.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-hate-crimes-racism-eu-referendum-vote-attacks-increase-police-figures-official-a7358866.html

I am a life long Tory voter and I regarded many of the speeches at the recent Conservative conference absolutely repugnant - and the press headlines since across the Mail, Express, Sun, etc, little short of disgusting.

If that offends me - as a Conservative - you can only imagine the horrified reaction from more centrist or left leaning Scots.

England appears to rapidly be diverging from our values and moving to a very nasty, bigoted, hateful and fear-filled view of the World - and frankly many of us want nothing to do with that.

So unless the political leadership in England quite rapidly manages to shut down what we see as overt bigotry, racism and xenophobia from a disturbingly large section of the population and the media - I rather suspect we'll vote to break up the UK before this parliament is out.

And consequences be damned.