The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

kabayiri wrote: »

QT was again disappointing I thought.

The SNP guy was guilty of talking Scotland (and UK) down I thought. He wouldn't acknowledge the better than expected employment figures and strong spending.

Merryn Somerset Webb was pointing out lots of stuff to him.

It was a pretty divided audience though, quite acrimonious at times.

Another independence ref is not going to fix this bitterness is it?

Oh yes, Merryn was right on the money with most of what she said. Except perhaps the Nigel Farage peerage, although it would get him pretty much out of the way. Even if you do agree with him I think he's become toxic for those who agree with him on any point he raises.

I expected nothing less from the SNP representative, especially when he got caught out and trotted out the usual leftist response to being cornered, instead of admitting they were wrong, pivot and if at all possible blame the person who just had you banged to rights, attacking Chris Bryant and Labour on the nationalisation of Scottish railways. It's been some time since Labour has been in power, quite a tenuous rebuttal, Nicolson even looked uncomfortable delivering it.

mollycat

kabayiri wrote: »

QT was again disappointing I thought.

The SNP guy was guilty of talking Scotland (and UK) down I thought. He wouldn't acknowledge the better than expected employment figures and strong spending.

Merryn Somerset Webb was pointing out lots of stuff to him.

It was a pretty divided audience though, quite acrimonious at times.

Another independence ref is not going to fix this bitterness is it?

100% correct.

Will take years to recover and heal from 2014, and that's the 2nd best reason to avoid another.

The best reason?

The 1st Referendum was a one off and binding!!

Sorry guys

mayonnaise

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I simply pointed out that the man is a founding member of a sectarian flute band, who stood for UKIP in 2013 getting 34 votes and by all accounts secured a drink driving conviction on the same day.

A typical kipper. :rotfl:

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Don't wade through too much of it. The point I was making is that this is a good start and many more ( as Salmond hinted a wee while ago ) 'white papers' like these should in an ideal world be in the works from various pro indy groups and think tanks. The whole point of independence is that we get the choice afterwards.

The media, and to an extent the SNP themselves tied in the SNP's view of independence last time so tightly to the entire concept that no one else got a say, and lots of Scots thought they weren't getting a choice in the matter if there was a Yes vote. SNP's way or the highway. I remember you, I and others here vainly trying to point out that the SNP's white paper was only one view of a possible independent Scotland 100's of times.

If there's to be a next time, the SNP would do well to step back until the last minute and let others put forward their own white papers for extensive perusal and critique like I just did here with the Common Weal. The point being that what an independent Scotland would look like is up to them with lots of political and economic choices on offer to deal with the no doubt huge challenges that come with it.

Oh and also that the Kevin Hagues in this world aren't the only people out there with opinions and graphs. They're already all over this one like a rash. My main point :- I'm personally really hoping that we get lots of these types of papers put forward, and that Scots end up discussing, dissecting and heatedly debating what's the best course and what's possible or not between those. Rather than Mr GERS ( Kevin ) same old/same old 'naw' all the time.

Tricky's already well in there and he hates the idea of independence, I imagine others who are open to the idea are being linked to it too. And will also be well in there mulling some of the ideas over. Even if they disagree or pick holes, the point is that they're mulling it over. And if there's lots to choose from... then they are in fact mulling over the idea of independence itself ..rather than just the SNP's view of it like last time which many did not share.

Yes papers like this get people talking about independence, but what papers like this really do is spread misinformation.

You'll now have throngs of pro-independence supporters patting the Dr on the back on a job well done. Holding it up as some form of religious text that proves they were right all along and the heresy of those who disagree with their view can go to hell. Because these people, who already agree with the Dr regardless of whatever version of his truth he trots out, have already bought into it all. They won't objectively scrutinise the paper, look for the inconsistencies, the irregularities, the down right false. They're already paid up members (politically) to the idea of an independent Scotland, so a paper on the economics doesn't matter to them.

What should matter is getting it honest, getting it factual, with no bias, so that when those who will scrutinise it who are yet to be converted to your cause read the paper they will have no argument that an independent Scotland can thrive. Because thriving is what's required, simply maintaining the status quo, or being worse off won't win you any voters.

No one took up my offer of the £20 bet, having now read all of the paper I would have won it anyway. It cannot be taken seriously unless it addresses all known facets of the independence argument. The border effect being one rarely mentioned by pro-independence supporters, but an effect that is well documented and supported by scientific study that would wipe out all of his pseudo GDP gains.

Shakethedisease

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Explain "orange" Shakey?

Why ?

Or did you want me to say Protestant ? I have no idea why, I was christened one myself. The man YOU mentioned on QT founded an Orange Walk flute band, stood for UKIP, got 34 votes and has a drunk driving conviction. He also wore a big orange coat and made a total a**e of himself last night on national tv.

You say 'are you watching Shakey'. I was, and I think you trying to paint this man's comments as something to take note of, or as something the SNP should be worried about... are worthy of instant dismissal. Thank you.

TrickyTree83

mayonnaise wrote: »

A typical kipper. :rotfl:

Hey mayo, I know this is unrelated to the thread, but it's related to your views and kind of what you just posted.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/18/tory-mp-reveals-brexit-death-threats-including-isil-image-of-his/

My word, all you remainers are a basket of deplorables!

(What I just wrote, it's not true is it? Do you see the problem with calling all Leavers xenophobes and racists yet?)

mayonnaise

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Hey mayo, I know this is unrelated to the thread, but it's related to your views and kind of what you just posted.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/18/tory-mp-reveals-brexit-death-threats-including-isil-image-of-his/

My word, all you remainers are a basket of deplorables!

(What I just wrote, it's not true is it? Do you see the problem with calling all Leavers xenophobes and racists yet?)

Not really, because nobody did such a thing.
But I can quote myself if you insist.

mayonnaise wrote: »

Not everyone who voted Brexit is a racist, but every racist voted for Brexit. Enjoy your bedfellows.

I hope the bolding and font size is clear enough for you and I agree it's a bit off topic.

TrickyTree83

mayonnaise wrote: »

Not really, because nobody did such a thing.
But I can quote myself if you insist.

I hope the bolding and font size is clear enough for you and I agree it's a bit off topic.

So does that also mean you agree that there are deplorables (such a hot word right now) on both sides, Leave and Remain? And that taking a pious position and berating one side for their deplorables whilst ignoring 'your own', a bit like the anglophobia denial going on here, shouldn't take place? If not, perhaps you ought to practice what you preach, and you too should have to enjoy your bedfellows.

I think I can read, although according to some what I read and what they read appears to be different, so someone has to be wrong.

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Merryn Somerset Webb is an advisor to 'Scotland in Union'. Her nonsense about people telling her that independence referendum uncertainty was far worse than the Brexit impact was laughable wishful thinking on her part.
...

Yes, she was very good.

I'm not sure why they invited that shrieky independent woman on the other side of David.

She looked out of her depth, kept retreating back to the 'orrible Tories meme.

She felt so strongly about the EU referendum, to the point where she didn't even vote!

She looked an a$$ at that point! :rotfl:

TrickyTree83

kabayiri wrote: »

Yes, she was very good.

I'm not sure why they invited that shrieky independent woman on the other side of David.

She looked out of her depth, kept retreating back to the 'orrible Tories meme.

She felt so strongly about the EU referendum, to the point where she didn't even vote!

She looked an a$$ at that point! :rotfl:

Oh how I laughed! Someone should make a montage of her pro EU preaching and then absolute collapse when asked if she voted. Hypocrisy was dripping from her.