The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

It seems that many here missed that post or perhaps simply did not understand it, so ...........
Why don't you explain to those who may not know just what you mean by the "Orange" comment there, Shakey?
:whistle:

You were waxing lyrical about the guys opinions and how the SNP should be 'scared' of people like him becoming a mainstream view.

I simply pointed out that the man is a founding member of a sectarian flute band, who stood for UKIP in 2013 getting 34 votes and by all accounts secured a drink driving conviction on the same day.

Hardly representative of people like yourself I would think. Well, at least I hope not.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Tricky, just do a quick Google.
This might show you just how far pro-SNP advocates are prepared to stoop.
William Of Orange & all that, from - oh, as recently as 400 years ago.
Now if they can't accept THAT what chance do you think you have of them accepting anything else?

They try to tell you there's no anti-English sentiment?
Yet in print above as clear as day is evidence of an equally-ancient sectarianism.

Says it all really, doesn't it?

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You were waxing lyrical about the guys opinions and how the SNP should be 'scared' of people like him becoming a mainstream view.

I simply pointed out that the man is a founding member of a sectarian flute band, who stood for UKIP in 2013 getting 34 votes and by all accounts secured a drink driving conviction on the same day.

Hardly representative of people like yourself I would think. Well, at least I hope not.

Explain "orange" Shakey?

CLAPTON

The Scottish and Welsh governments are to be allowed to have a say in the Supreme Court battle over how Brexit should be triggered.
The government is appealing against a High Court ruling that MPs must get a vote on triggering Article 50.
The Supreme Court confirmed that Wales and Scotland's senior law officers will be allowed to take part in the appeal.

one can presume that whatever the outcome of the court case, the verdict will be an direct or indirect boost for Iscotland i.e. will be of aid to Nicola or a disgusting insult to the people of scotland either of which to boost support for iscotland

TrickyTree83

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Tricky, just do a quick Google.
This might show you just how far pro-SNP advocates are prepared to stoop.
William Of Orange & all that, from - oh, as recently as 400 years ago.
Now if they can't accept THAT what chance do you think you have of them accepting anything else?

They try to tell you there's no anti-English sentiment?
Yet in print above as clear as day is evidence of an equally-ancient sectarianism.

Says it all really, doesn't it?

Am I correct in thinking that it's the same brand of sectarianism that is found in Northern Ireland?

I'm quite aware of that brand, my father was over there in the RMP trying to bring peace and keep the people safe. Those bloody English eh...

mollycat

Just for Tricky Tree's benefit; the vast majority of NO voters in Scotland are not members of the Orange Order, nor would they have much to do with some of their less conventional views.

They are an easy and convenient hook to hang the percieved discredit of the entire NO movement on.

However; I think the point of AMSJ's calling out of the point made was to highlight the intolerance of pro-indy supporters to those who oppose them....apart from the OO we have "Uncle Tam's", (NO voters), Tories, (hundreds of thousands of them), and of course anyone making a positive noise regarding the unbelievable luck of being born British.

The Question Time chap, who makes a good, well supported point, will have been roundly derided by the inhabitants of the "SNP bubble" many times today in similar terms to those quote; the irony being that it is them not him, that are living in the land of make believe.

TrickyTree83

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Tricky, just do a quick Google.
This might show you just how far pro-SNP advocates are prepared to stoop.
William Of Orange & all that, from - oh, as recently as 400 years ago.
Now if they can't accept THAT what chance do you think you have of them accepting anything else?

They try to tell you there's no anti-English sentiment?
Yet in print above as clear as day is evidence of an equally-ancient sectarianism.

Says it all really, doesn't it?

Oh well on the topic of anti-english sentiment I think that arguments been had, multiple times prior to my involvement, whether it was won or lost I don't know I've not read back but certainly I'm convinced this time that I've provided sufficient evidence that there is a link, that cannot be denied, and the rhetoric on Wings Over Scotland, Wee Ginger Dug and others just adds fuel to the fire that not only does it exist, but it's found a place to survive in the independence movement.

They certainly don't disavow it do they? Certainly not from the posts and comments I've seen on social media, where you don't have to give it to the local SNP commissar to check before publishing.

Gives a whole new meaning to the virtue signalling done using #WeAreScotland, yeah - only if you agree.

kabayiri

QT was again disappointing I thought.

The SNP guy was guilty of talking Scotland (and UK) down I thought. He wouldn't acknowledge the better than expected employment figures and strong spending.

Merryn Somerset Webb was pointing out lots of stuff to him.

It was a pretty divided audience though, quite acrimonious at times.

Another independence ref is not going to fix this bitterness is it?

Shakethedisease

elantan wrote: »

Two bits of news today for Scotland other than the new finances

1) Scotland can intervention on article 50
2) Some drinks firms are taking their case to mother court regarding minimum pricing

An interesting news day so far

Still trying to wade through the common weal stuff but agree with Shake they are very left wing, possibly too left wing ... but I do like them

Don't wade through too much of it. The point I was making is that this is a good start and many more ( as Salmond hinted a wee while ago ) 'white papers' like these should in an ideal world be in the works from various pro indy groups and think tanks. The whole point of independence is that we get the choice afterwards.

The media, and to an extent the SNP themselves tied in the SNP's view of independence last time so tightly to the entire concept that no one else got a say, and lots of Scots thought they weren't getting a choice in the matter if there was a Yes vote. SNP's way or the highway. I remember you, I and others here vainly trying to point out that the SNP's white paper was only one view of a possible independent Scotland 100's of times.

If there's to be a next time, the SNP would do well to step back until the last minute and let others put forward their own white papers for extensive perusal and critique like I just did here with the Common Weal. The point being that what an independent Scotland would look like is up to them with lots of political and economic choices on offer to deal with the no doubt huge challenges that come with it.

Oh and also that the Kevin Hagues in this world aren't the only people out there with opinions and graphs. They're already all over this one like a rash. My main point :- I'm personally really hoping that we get lots of these types of papers put forward, and that Scots end up discussing, dissecting and heatedly debating what's the best course and what's possible or not between those. Rather than Mr GERS ( Kevin ) same old/same old 'naw' all the time.

Tricky's already well in there and he hates the idea of independence, I imagine others who are open to the idea are being linked to it too. And will also be well in there mulling some of the ideas over. Even if they disagree or pick holes, the point is that they're mulling it over. And if there's lots to choose from... then they are in fact mulling over the idea of independence itself ..rather than just the SNP's view of it like last time which many did not share.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

QT was again disappointing I thought.

The SNP guy was guilty of talking Scotland (and UK) down I thought. He wouldn't acknowledge the better than expected employment figures and strong spending.

Merryn Somerset Webb was pointing out lots of stuff to him.

It was a pretty divided audience though, quite acrimonious at times.

Another independence ref is not going to fix this bitterness is it?

Merryn Somerset Webb is an advisor to 'Scotland in Union'. Her nonsense about people telling her that independence referendum uncertainty was far worse than the Brexit impact was laughable wishful thinking on her part.

No one experiences that sort of bitterness in day to day lives any more than you probably do over the Brexit vote. It never happened after the last Scottish ref either. People just got on with their day to day lives much as they always have.