The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

mayonnaise wrote: »

I'm baffled by the effort you put into showing correlation between Scottish identity and Anglo-phobia.... while on the other hand dismissing any correlation between the brexit vote and hate crime in England.

While EU citizens are being kicked to death, stoned and spat at on England's streets, leaflets with 'No more polish vermin' posted through their letterboxes, Polish ladies being ordered off public transport and German nationals are being advised not to speak their mother tongue in public, you come up with some obscure study on Anglophobia in Scotland?
Give me a break.

Whoa.

Not an argument. You've not disproved any of the evidence.

I did not dismiss the correlation, I showed it for what it was, as a percentage of the populace that voted to Leave to disprove the narrative you so often use that everyone who voted to Leave is a racist or a xenophobe. You're wrong, clearly. But I absolutely never said that it did not exist and that it was not linked to the EU referendum. If some people choose to do bad things it does not mean that I should change my beliefs on a binary question such as the EU referendum.

What is being discussed (sadly) is the link between anglophobia and the SNP, because I was told I was talking rubbish and that it did not exist. I was challenged to produce evidence of this that wasn't from newspapers - which I have.

You want to change the subject, because you know you cannot win the argument. That's called a pivot.

TrickyTree83

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Its a bit rich, to say the least, for pro Brexit anti immigrant posters on here to accuse the Scots of being anti English.

Perhaps some of you might reflect on how unpleasant you find the idea of being discriminated against due to your nationality and consider that that street goes both ways.

As far as I can see I'm the one arguing that the SNP vote is linked to anglophobia.

I'm not anti-immigrant.

Who exactly were you directing this at?

If you're aiming it at me and you're trying to play the man not the ball here you are going to fail spectacularly, as I'm sure you know my own personal choice on what the UK's relationship with the EU should be, on freedom of movement and on my choice of spouse.

Conrad

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Its a bit rich, to say the least, for pro Brexit anti immigrant posters on here


.

Not anti immigrant, anti Blair's opening the floodgates.


The UK was perfectly ok with more manageable immigration numbers. The cabbages got picked and the NHS functioned. Amazing eh

mayonnaise

I'm wondering...how does this Anglo-phobia manifest itself?
Do English people get killed and wounded on Scotland's streets?

TrickyTree83

mayonnaise wrote: »

I'm wondering...how does this Anglo-phobia manifest itself?
Do English people get killed and wounded on Scotland's streets?

If you'd read the research, killed - no, wounded - yes.

Clearly you haven't, having had ample chance to do so I doubt you ever will.

Some, including yourself, have broken out the social justice Alamo lines.

"You voted to leave, you're anti-immigrant, racist and xenophobic!!".

"What about the racists in England!"



We're talking about Scotland in this thread, why do you and others who lose arguments always end up with the toddler-like position of "What about him/her/England/whatever?!" when talking about Scotland in isolation? Like it's some kind of justification for your position of denial or ignorance. Actually I know why.. but you really need to stop because it just doesn't work.

If the evidence cannot be disproved or discredited, and remember it's not my own personal evidence but that of sociological research, then the evidence must be correct. It will remain correct until it can be disproved, that's how science works. Newton's 3 laws will remain the same until they can be disproved, then they'll be remodelled and a new truth will be accepted. Therefore published sociology papers demonstrating links between anglophobia, Scottish identity and voting SNP are telling you that my assertion that there is a link was correct.

None of you have given any admission that you accept the findings of academic people who have actually bothered to try and find out if there is a link between anglophobia, Scottish identity, its politics and the SNP.

Quite frankly it's looking more and more like I've disproved Shakey, elantan, yourself and ruggedtoast on this topic, despite the dirty tricks to play the man not the ball.

Just admit it, there is a scientifically proven link between voting for the SNP, for Scottish identity politics and being anglophobic. A link, so much so that it wouldn't be a stretch to coin an oft used leftist phrase "not every SNP voter is anglophobic - but every anglophobe is an SNP voter".

Acceptance is the first step on the road to dealing with affliction.

CLAPTON

mayonnaise wrote: »

I'm wondering...how does this Anglo-phobia manifest itself?
Do English people get killed and wounded on Scotland's streets?

obviously the answer is yes; but in scotland it wouldn't be counted as a hate/racist crime

mayonnaise

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

If you'd read the research, killed - no, wounded - yes.

Clearly you haven't, having had ample chance to do so I doubt you ever will.

Yes, I read about the boy being punched at the footy game and the woman being attacked in an 'alleged' anti-English attack back in 2009.
In the face of this, you have clearly demonstrated the link between Scottish identity, voting SNP and Anglophobia. Sure.

TrickyTree83

mayonnaise wrote: »

Yes, I read about the boy being punched at the footy game and the woman being attacked in an 'alleged' anti-English attack back in 2009.
In the face of this, you have clearly demonstrated the link between Scottish identity, voting SNP and Anglophobia. Sure.

Not me my friend. The scientists, you know those people who study things like this.. as a job.

If you think they're wrong perhaps you should tell them, maybe they're unaware of that?

Don't exclude them from whatever insight it is you have (as you've not shared it) that demonstrates otherwise.

.string.

mayonnaise wrote: »

I'm baffled by the effort you put into showing correlation between Scottish identity and Anglo-phobia.... while on the other hand dismissing any correlation between the brexit vote and hate crime in England.

While EU citizens are being kicked to death, stoned and spat at on England's streets, leaflets with 'No more polish vermin' posted through their letterboxes, Polish ladies being ordered off public transport and German nationals are being advised not to speak their mother tongue in public, you come up with some obscure study on Anglophobia in Scotland?
Give me a break.

But discussing that link (Brexit - hate crime etc) was not the Central issue of what TT has been trying to debate, it was the matter of anti-English sentiment being stirred deliberately up by the SNP and happening on their watch. He was objecting to the deflection towards the Brexit situation being used to avoid the matter in hand, the SNP situation.

But if you want to see the link between the two, as a Remainer during the Referendum I can offer the following:
======================================
The Leave UK/Leave EU campaign made use of xenophobic attitudes, notably in the institutionalised venom issuing from the SNP/UKIP party policies, publicity and propaganda.

With Brexit is was xenophobic mistrust of the people of the EU, their institutions and their opinions, with the SNP it was mistrust of unionists, even Scots, and non-Scots, notably the English.

The SNP have been at it long before UKIP were invented and their anti Union /English backdrop continues unabated .

There is no even slightly comparable institutionalised anti-Scottish counterpart in the rest of the UK.

======================================

There - enough of that red herring.

mollycat

.string. wrote: »

But discussing that link (Brexit - hate crime etc) was not the Central issue of what TT has been trying to debate, it was the matter of anti-English sentiment being stirred deliberately up by the SNP and happening on their watch. He was objecting to the deflection towards the Brexit situation being used to avoid the matter in hand, the SNP situation.

But if you want to see the link between the two, as a Remainer during the Referendum I can offer the following:
======================================
The Leave UK/Leave EU campaign made use of xenophobic attitudes, notably in the institutionalised venom issuing from the SNP/UKIP party policies, publicity and propaganda.

With Brexit is was xenophobic mistrust of the people of the EU, their institutions and their opinions, with the SNP it was mistrust of unionists, even Scots, and non-Scots, notably the English.

The SNP have been at it long before UKIP were invented and their anti Union /English backdrop continues unabated .

There is no even slightly comparable institutionalised anti-Scottish counterpart in the rest of the UK.

======================================

There - enough of that red herring.

.string.

As a NO/Remain voter who accepts democratic outcomes, can I sincerely thank you for that insight, and also thank you for puting it so accurately.

As someone who lives and works in Scotland, and gives equal value and respect of peoples of all nations, religions and orientation I would like to put on record my absolute disgust at the division, hatred and predujice promoted by nationalists in all forms, both now and throughout history.

Clever propaganda and misinformation targeted at the vulnerable is always shown for what is when the spotlight is shone.

I salute your, and others, continued critique of this dangerous dogma.