The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

HornetSaver

One thing I've never understood about the Holyrood election system (and indeed the Welsh Assembly one too). Why should parties get to cherry pick their list candidates?

Why not just have FPTP for the constituency seats, transfer excess votes over to determine the region seat allocation per party, and give those seats to the candidates that came closest to winning their races? So let's say Labour win one regional seat - that regional seat should go to the candidate who came closest to getting a mandate in the constituency, not the most senior hanger-on.

It would also reduce tactical voting in the constituency races - if you want to vote Labour but think the Lib Dems or Tories have a better chance of beating the SNP (as is the case in most places nowadays - the Tories are the only unionist party with a competent leader, and the only one not trying to be like the SNP. The Lib Dems are the only party with pockets of places where personal votes count for anything), you would be penalised for that tactical vote by getting someone who doesn't represent you as well a better shot at the regional list, rather than a "free shot" at the SNP in the constituency and then voting for Labour on your completely separate regional vote.

Wales is arguably a clearer example. A lot of Welsh voters want to be represented by UKIP, and it is of course right that they are getting a few AMs. Whether those UKIP voters want that representation to be provided by Hamilton and Reckless is a different question entirely.

Back to Scotland though, and it could be argued that the SNP would have won a majority under the tweak I suggest (similar list performance but a couple more constituencies due to reduced tactical voting). Though ironically the lack of an SNP majority makes Sturgeon's position better - if things go wrong it's a bit easier for her to say "we didn't have a majority and had to compromise", and indeed as she's more cautious/pragmatic than most of her voters on the optimum moment to go for Indyref2, she can use the lack of a majority as an excuse not call a referendum she's not overwhemingly confident of winning.

What SNP supporters tend to gloss over is that there's a limit to how many referendums you can lose without doing your own cause damage. They're damn lucky to have Sturgeon, because she will not call one unless it's inconceivable that the unionists would win. Until that time, she will let the issue continue to be a burning point of debate as it's in her political interest, and in turn by being in power she has the ability to call that referendum when the timing is right.

elantan

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Some of us have been at work and napping after a late night/unsettled sleep watching the results.

You can spin it however much you like Hamish but the fact remains there are more pro Indy MSP's at Holyrood than anti.

I'm quite enjoying your excited gleeful posts but do try and remember this important fact.

I'm a little disappointed in my constituency. We remain labour after a recount revealed 109 votes between the incumbent and the SNP challenger. Faslane had something to do with her victory I'm sure.

God you got her ? My sympathies, she is such an utter useless human being

Also the snp increased their number of votes over 2011 ... now that's impressive for a third term ... and those 6 greens... it's an Indy parly again

Rinoa

Odds for Scotland to be independent by 2020 slide from 4/1 to 10/1.

Sums it up nicely.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/holyrood-2016-odds-of-indyref-2-decrease-1-4120812

Tromking

Leanne1812 wrote: »

You can spin it however much you like Hamish but the fact remains there are more pro Indy MSP's at Holyrood than anti.

I'm quite enjoying your excited gleeful posts but do try and remember this important fact.

As long as you remember that oh so 'progressive' Scotland has just embraced those nasty Tories again. 😀

Leanne1812

elantan wrote: »

God you got her ? My sympathies, she is such an utter useless human being

Also the snp increased their number of votes over 2011 ... now that's impressive for a third term ... and those 6 greens... it's an Indy parly again

Yes, sadly Jackie was re-elected here. I think everyone who didn't vote for her is pretty bewildered. She was getting in anyway as 1st on the list but she was obviously rightly concerned she'd lose the constituency. I'm sure the SNP candidate will be crushed at losing with so narrow a margin.

Yes, I saw a graph earlier on Twitter with a few facts that may displease Hamish. I tried to post but it failed. I'll try again.

Leanne1812

Tromking wrote: »

As long as you remember that oh so 'progressive' Scotland has just embraced those nasty Tories again. 😀

Purely tactical Tromking. We all know this.

Leanne1812

Rinoa wrote: »

Odds for Scotland to be independent by 2020 slide from 4/1 to 10/1.

Sums it up nicely.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/holyrood-2016-odds-of-indyref-2-decrease-1-4120812

It's a long game. We're patient us scots

Tromking

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Purely tactical Tromking. We all know this.

You're on the ground Leanne and I'm not, but that sounds complacent. Looking at the Scottish electoral map the 'English'border sees to have moved northwards overnight.

Leanne1812

Tromking wrote: »

You're on the ground Leanne and I'm not, but that sounds complacent. Looking at the Scottish electoral map the 'English'border sees to have moved northwards overnight.

It's quite simple. We're 2 camps here politically. Pro Indy and anti. The tories have rebranded as the Conservative & Unionist Party. Look at the state of labour up here, many feel they weren't worth their vote. You hate the SNP and you want to remain part of the U.K. Who would you vote for?

Tromking

Leanne1812 wrote: »

It's quite simple. We're 2 camps here politically. Pro Indy and anti. The tories have rebranded as the Conservative & Unionist Party. Look at the state of labour up here, many feel they weren't worth their vote. You hate the SNP and you want to remain part of the U.K. Who would you vote for?

I do get that, not least because I've been telling Shakey that Scotland is the new Ulster for months. A vote for the Tories is no more a tactical vote than one for the SNP.