The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

At least she has a plan.

Oh you can be sure Theresa May has a plan, the finishing touches are going on it including further consultation with devolved Governments, with those that have constructive inputs that is. She is just not telling anyone what it is and has explained the reason why many times. Only those that have an axe to grind have not understood that, plus, of course, the terminally daft.

Sturgeon, on the other hand will come up with free magic dust for Scotland or else.

Article 50 will be up and running somewhere between the end of the EU financial year and the end of the British financial year.

elantan

May in the hot water the day I see ... getting caught saying things in private tsk tsk

elantan

Anyone else enjoying the irony of the latest 38 degrees petition ? Although I think that one has now been pulled and a UK parliament one has appeared in its place

#throwscotlandout if anyone fancies a wee chuckle ... now I'm off to make pit try and play nice till I get back

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Sigh. The very first and most recent article in the one of the first paragraphs I read.

https://whytepaper.wordpress.com/2016/10/17/meme-busting-deficit-drivel/

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Government/Finance/spfm/borrowingetc

The 2016 amendments aren't in force till next year.

In other words, the blog's a little bit biased and missing out information that is very much related, and in fact central to the issue he's discussing. He glosses over this completely as if the Scottish Govt is borrowing like mad producing deficits. But he has his facts totally wrong. As well as Scotland Acts and what's in force currently for Holyrood regarding borrowing. Any reader of Wings or serious follower of Scottish politics in terms of what the recent Fiscal Framework back and forths early this year were about would have known this straight away.

Try another blog if you want balance. This one is not very good and anti-SNP to the point he blogs about borrowing powers that Holyrood currently does not have.

We can draw a line under this now, and agree that anyone can write any old crap on the internet and call it fact when it suits.

Excellent.

Firstly the page you cite to disprove his claim that borrowing powers were extended in 2012 and 2016 was published in 2011.

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Government/Finance/spfm/borrowingetc

You will however note that as part of the Scotland Act 2012 he is indeed correct that new powers were given to enable Scottish ministers to borrow up to £2.2bn for capital purposes and £500m for revenue capped at £200m for a particular year. This came into force in 2015-2016.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/11/section/32/enacted

http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2013/04/5026/3

That's a gov.scot website, so if they're so trustworthy it must be correct. Right?

Ok that's out of the way.

You've been rather selective with his words. And that distorts the argument he's making, and makes the outdated Scottish government link you posted look as though it's correct and he is wrong.

What he said was this:

Scotland has no deficit

Pointless sophistry. Holyrood does have borrowing powers, extended through the Scotland Acts 2012 and 2016, but the overall deficit that is laid out in GERS is the gap between Scotland’s public revenue, i.e. taxation, and Scotland’s spending. It is a deficit in the same way that health boards have deficits, councils have deficits and… erm… governments have deficits.

Which is what everyone has been trying to tell you for quite some time now.

If I personally spend more than I earn, I have a deficit. If my wife spends more than she earns, she has a deficit. If we both spend more than we earn, we both have a deficit, but I'm not in control of what she borrows on behalf of the household.

In the same way Westminster do indeed borrow on Holyrood's behalf, however Holyrood doesn't turn around and say "no we're not spending it because we can't afford it.", they gleefully spend it on populist programmes. They are therefore complicit in the spending of money we do not have. So when looking at Scotland in isolation and the money they spend versus the money they earn, there is indeed a deficit between the two.

It's just maths. There's nothing deceitful or bias about it.

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

Anyone else enjoying the irony of the latest 38 degrees petition ? Although I think that one has now been pulled and a UK parliament one has appeared in its place

#throwscotlandout if anyone fancies a wee chuckle ... now I'm off to make pit try and play nice till I get back

The campaign of division is working.

I said as much.

Lies and hate, lies and hate.

elantan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

The campaign of division is working.

I said as much.

Lies and hate, lies and hate.

Have you even had a look at it ?

Funnily enough the racist attacks have thankfully lessened here in Scotland since Brexit ... how's it doing down your way again ?.

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

Have you even had a look at it ?

Have you?

Have you seen what some of the English are now saying about Scotland?

You may rejoice at it, I recoil.

The SNP, you, and others like you have successfully sown division in the union. So much so that some English are now calling for Scotland to be thrown out.

Both sides disgust me.

Enterprise_1701C

wotsthat wrote: »

Sterling, Euro or the Groat - every answer makes her look a fool.

it's sterling - she just doesn't know how or when to break it to you.

But if she used Sterling Scotland would not be financially independent. Sterling is the currency of the UK and controlled by the Bank of England. And she would need permission to continue using Sterling, I would be very surprised if that was forthcoming.

The question of the currency that would be used is a VERY big one, one that she sidesteps at every turn. If you were to be allowed to join the EU you would be forced to use the Euro once the conditions had been fulfilled, so you either stay broke or become prosperous and get hoiked into the Euro, which would then break you.

TrickyTree83

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

But if she used Sterling Scotland would not be financially independent. Sterling is the currency of the UK and controlled by the Bank of England. And she would need permission to continue using Sterling, I would be very surprised if that was forthcoming.

The question of the currency that would be used is a VERY big one, one that she sidesteps at every turn. If you were to be allowed to join the EU you would be forced to use the Euro once the conditions had been fulfilled, so you either stay broke or become prosperous and get hoiked into the Euro, which would then break you.

It's all crazy.

The only answer is, there won't be an answer that makes Scotland better off.

In almost every question, particularly in this possible referendum where EU membership is thrown into the bargain. You could argue that even the political arguments Shakey loves to use fall foul of the fact that Brussels will be telling them what to do rather than Westminster.

sss555s

.string. wrote: »

Do you remember the story "Crying Wolf"?

Your heroine has done the same thing time after time after time after time ad nausea.

She makes unrealistic demands which she knows (unless she is stupid which I doubt) cannot be met, waits for them to be unrealised and then launches into a prepared whinge about how ....

Another non-existing wolf appears on the horizon. Can hardly wait ... Yawn.

Is that Maggie Thatcher, Theresa May or both?

It looks like you like sum everything up in a tainted story where you can predict every turn, twist and final outcome.

Anyone with sense knows that can never be accurate in real life.

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I'm only asking for one.

One measly little quote from one article to prove that he's bias and not factually correct.

Doesn't have to be the full article, just one alleged factoid.

Tricky, you post the most non factual guff and [STRIKE]opinions[/STRIKE] wishes for the future of Scotland when you have no idea of the history of, or what it's like to live in Scotland. You have already admitted your here to try and stop Scotland leaving the UK for the better of England.

Surely it should be up to you to convince someone with a vote that your view is correct for [STRIKE]England[/STRIKE] Scotland rather than them having to keep trying to convince you.

Nicola has said that her next move depends on what May does, though she is probably preparing for all eventualities in the back ground.

I just hope she is ready for all the (Westminster run) media dirty tricks, lies and manipulation that would lay ahead if the right step was to hold another referendum.