The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

skintmacflint wrote: »

At present the UK government is focused on negotiating and planning for Brexit, first and foremost for the benefit of the entire UK. It has its own clear priorities and objectives to work through. SNP having a temper tantrum just isn't one of them at present. Nor I think any major EU countries priority either.

With regard to your Independence Referendum and Brexit comparison , the difference is very probably facts and law. The problem with the mindset of many social justice warriors seems to be they think their feelings and opinions are the only thing which matter and should over rule facts and the law. They don't.

We've already established that an advisory or consultative referendum can be held. Is the result of it that's going to be a problem for Westminster if it's a Yes vote, not the referendum itself.

They're definitely going to go for it before the UK leaves though if there are no other options left. You, Tricky and others here can absolutely take that one to the bank. There'll be no hanging around twiddling fingers and waiting till the UK leaves :- SNP Conference motion to be debated on Friday.

Note the 'keep and remain' language once again.

Conference believes that every avenue must be explored to keep Scotland in the EU. If no viable solution to safeguard our membership as part of the UK exists, Scotland should prepare for a second independence referendum and seek to remain in Europe as an independent country.

Shakethedisease

skintmacflint wrote: »

Not sure they would be missed, for all the difference SNP have made at Westminster. Other than costs of course. Next election we can just vote for MP's who will.

Our responsible as never longstanding SNP MP Pete Wishart tweeted today ' the Blairites are now like your embarrassing incontinent relative, stuck away in a care home , who you might go and visit occasionally'.

Charming as ever. Tweet now deleted.

Bad choice for an analogy I'd agree. But when the Telegraph run with fawning articles like this, then there's far more to be worried about than Wishart's crap tweets that hardly anyone sees.

Theresa May is following Enoch Powell – by actually listening to what British people want

It was hardly surprising that, as I listened to Theresa May’s speech last Wednesday, I was reminded of Powell. When she told some of her colleagues, and their tame pundits in the media, to stop whining about Brexit and instead to respect the votes of more than 17 million people who had found the EU unpalatable, she made a profoundly Powellite point. She accused such people of sneering at the majority who voted in the referendum. In truth, it is a sneer that has lasted for decades.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/07/theresa-may-is-following-enoch-powell--by-actually-listening-to/

kabayiri

If you offer the option of a residual entity to represent the UK in Europe, then you must include NI in that.

They also voted to remain.

mrginge

kabayiri wrote: »

If you offer the option of a residual entity to represent the UK in Europe, then you must include NI in that.

They also voted to remain.

Can you imagine the mess if the EU told scotland they had a right to remain. They would have to give that same right to every other region of every other member country. They would single-handedly give impetus to every independence movement across Europe.
As has been repeatedly pointed out to shakey, this is not happening. This salient point of course gets ignored.

So, hold the referendum before Brexit is finalised if you wish ms sturgeon, you will hold it under the two choices of unknown UK future or unknown future outside the EU.
Tough choice for the scottish people.

kabayiri

mrginge wrote: »

...
So, hold the referendum before Brexit is finalised if you wish ms sturgeon, you will hold it under the two choices of unknown UK future or unknown future outside the EU.
Tough choice for the scottish people.

I'm trying to work out the upside for the EU in negotiating with Scotland at the same time as working on Brexit.

It could easily complicate matters, so there are obvious downsides.

It might just be easier for them to leave the Scotland issue as an internal matter. for UK

Thrugelmir

kabayiri wrote: »

I'm trying to work out the upside for the EU in negotiating with Scotland at the same time as working on Brexit.

Problem number one.

Membership negotiations cannot start until all EU governments agree, in the form of a unanimous decision by the EU Council, on a framework or mandate for negotiations with the candidate country.

Spain springs to mind as a country with immediate objections.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

If you offer the option of a residual entity to represent the UK in Europe, then you must include NI in that.

They also voted to remain.

NI doesn't need permission to hold a border poll from Westminster. It's written into the Good Friday agreement that they can go for it whenever they want should circumstances change.

Their choice won't be to go independent. It'll be to rejoin Ireland or not. For them the choice will be between an Ireland in the EU. Or a UK outwith and the possible, and very unwelcome return of hard borders.

Scotland wouldn't be representing the UK in Europe if it went independent. Just Scotland.

islandannie

Do you think the Ayrshire plug understands politics at all?



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29987193

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14584885.EU_Council_President_Donald_Tusk_snubs_Nicola_Sturgeon/

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/7227177/Council-whacks-Chiefs-threaten-to-
sue-Nicola-Sturgeon-over-funding-talks-snub.html

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2013/01/27/snubbed-snp-go-behind-barroso-s-back-to-start-eu-negotiation

According to the Scottish heroine she is going to put them all in their place.How dare they not give us what we demand?

Shakethedisease

mrginge wrote: »

Can you imagine the mess if the EU told scotland they had a right to remain. They would have to give that same right to every other region of every other member country. They would single-handedly give impetus to every independence movement across Europe.
As has been repeatedly pointed out to shakey, this is not happening. This salient point of course gets ignored.

So, hold the referendum before Brexit is finalised if you wish ms sturgeon, you will hold it under the two choices of unknown UK future or unknown future outside the EU.
Tough choice for the scottish people.

Scotland isn't a region of the UK. That's where your argument falls down. Constitutionally ( if this is what you're inferring ) it's a signatory to the Act of Union 1707 joining two nations together politically. Reverse that with a referendum, which in essence is what an independence referendum achieves.. and you have two nations again. Just because England is bigger doesn't make Scotland a region of it. Neither historically nor currently.

I'm sure those in the EU can work that out all by themselves too. The UK in it's political make up of two different nations/1 principality and 1 province sharing the same overall parliament is a very rare thing indeed in the world today.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

I'm trying to work out the upside for the EU in negotiating with Scotland at the same time as working on Brexit.

It could easily complicate matters, so there are obvious downsides.

It might just be easier for them to leave the Scotland issue as an internal matter. for UK

It's very straightforward. They'll simply treat England and Wales as regions of the EU that are leaving rather than the entire UK. Put Scotland in a legal holding pen/limbo until it's all over, then work things out with Scotland from there. If at all. If Scotland does vote the leave the UK, then negotiations on leaving terms will be with England and Wales. Scotland will not be party to Article 50 talks after that.

If Scotland votes to go then they are no longer an internal matter for the UK and to be dealt with separately.

As for Spain, Gibraltar and access to fishing grounds may be far more of an issue than Scotland would be.