The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The EU Remain campaign would disagree with you over tariff's and a Brexit, and that's what I was referring to. Perhaps they should now take the line that the EU should be grateful for enormous London subsidies keeping the entire EU afloat ? Good luck with that. :money:

the Uk contribution to the EU is about £ 8.5billion (net) so about £17 per person in the Eu approximately
the English contribution to scotland is about £1,500 per person

elantan

Does anyone believe Cameron and his Panama papers ?

Rinoa

elantan wrote: »

Does anyone believe Cameron and his Panama papers ?

I don't believe much of what Cameron says.

If he was Scottish, he would definitely be in the SNP hierarchy.

elantan

Rinoa wrote: »

I don't believe much of what Cameron says.

If he was Scottish, he would definitely be in the SNP hierarchy.

You actually can't help but be a nasty person can't you not ?

I reckon it's so in yer blood it trips off your tongue without you even being aware ...

Leanne1812

islandannie wrote: »

So one of the strongest economies in the world should be terrified about tariffs imposed by Scottish Gigantic economies like the Uists and Hebrides, well that should make England quake.

Grow up.
London controls the vast money markets to the extent we all should be grateful.

My Own Islands are extremely grateful for the standard of living afforded us by the London taxpayers.

Sad that you benefits scroungers can`t be grateful.

Do you speak for all of 'your' islands Annie?

No. You don't. You speak for yourself. Your own opinion is all you have.

Yet another happy, happy 55er eh.

Your ignorance to call anyone who does not share your view a benefit scrounger is just incredible.

You don't see any irony in being quite happy to take the subsidy....

Astounding post from you.

Tromking

Shakethedisease wrote: »

On which planet do you see this ending up as a massive endorsement of Westminster ?

The economics are uncertain for sure, they always were. But people don't vote for spreadsheets. Any future referendum won't be so much of a leap in the dark as last time. If it's the result of a Brexit, then everyone in the UK will be taking leaps in the dark anyway.

Never denied the widespread antipathy in Scotland toward Westminster, just disagreeing with your point that it will manifest itself in Scots voting to leave the Union. If Swinney was interested in independence he`d be trying to wean Scots off the massive subsidy that makes independence implausible, by fighting tooth and nail to keep Barnett he`s pushing the dream further away.
On the subject of Brexit you mustn't confuse your small nation mentality with that of your average British/English citizen. There is IMO an in-built confidence with a Brit that makes a vote to leave the EU no leap of faith whatsoever.

Shakethedisease

Tromking wrote: »

Never denied the widespread antipathy in Scotland toward Westminster, just disagreeing with your point that it will manifest itself in Scots voting to leave the Union. If Swinney was interested in independence he`d be trying to wean Scots off the massive subsidy that makes independence implausible, by fighting tooth and nail to keep Barnett he`s pushing the dream further away.

How can Scotland possibly wean itself fully off the Barnett formula while still part of the union ? You make a great case for independence actually. Either Scotland is an 'equal part' of the UK, or it's not.

On the subject of Brexit you mustn't confuse your small nation mentality with that of your average British/English citizen. There is IMO an in-built confidence with a Brit that makes a vote to leave the EU no leap of faith whatsoever.

There's many in Scotland feel the same about leaving the UK and leaps in the dark. At least 45% in Sept 2014 feel that way. The polls are showing starker differences today re a Brexit.

ICM :- Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
Remain 44% (-1)
Leave 43% (n/c)
the Scottish subsample figures are Remain 60%, Leave 28%.

YouGov :- Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
Remain 39% (-1)
Leave 38% (+1)
The Scottish subsample figures are : Remain 51%, Leave 32%

We'll see about leaps in the dark soon enough. Cameron and Osborne's plunging popularity and the Panamapapers thing is all working against Remain at the moment.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Yes, I get what you're saying. But it's kind of white noise these days, on repeat. GERS isn't about independence, it's about Scotland within the union. If it's not looking good, then it's time to change who's in charge of it.

Except of course that's just nonsense.

GERS is the best estimate we have of Scotland's finances, income and expenditure. It is produced by a team of economists working for the SNP controlled Scottish Government.

There is no conceivable way the Scottish government could enact any legislation that would grow the economy at the pace required to overcome the shortfalls identified in GERS. None whatsoever.

All the other countries around the world that have 100% control over all the levers to create growth have never, ever, in the history of mankind, been able to create the growth we'd need to avoid bankruptcy.

In the SNP white paper the SNP claimed that if Scotland got full control of it's economy several decades ago then with a fair wind and using all the lever they had available it might have been 3% larger today than it is.

That's 3% in total over several decades, not even per year.

And yet somehow now you expect them to be able to grow the economy by the 20% plus - over and above current growth rates - it would take to avoid economic armageddon in just a few short years.

Can you now, finally, answer the question you've been asked repeatedly and avoided answering many times before.

What are these magical SNP growth powers that would enable Scotland to be unique in achieving unprecedented levels of growth?

And why hasn't every other country in the World with those powers been able to use them to that effect?

Shakethedisease

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Except of course that's just nonsense.

GERS is the best estimate we have of Scotland's finances, income and expenditure. It is produced by a team of economists working for the SNP controlled Scottish Government.

There is no conceivable way the Scottish government could enact any legislation that would grow the economy at the pace required to overcome the shortfalls identified in GERS. None whatsoever.

All the other countries around the world that have 100% control over all the levers to create growth have never, ever, in the history of mankind, been able to create the growth we'd need to avoid bankruptcy.

In the SNP white paper the SNP claimed that if Scotland got full control of it's economy several decades ago then with a fair wind and using all the lever they had available it might have been 3% larger today than it is.

That's 3% in total over several decades, not even per year.

And yet somehow now you expect them to be able to grow the economy by the 20% plus - over and above current growth rates - it would take to avoid economic armageddon in just a few short years.

Can you now, finally, answer the question you've been asked repeatedly and avoided answering many times before.

What are these magical SNP growth powers that would enable Scotland to be unique in achieving unprecedented levels of growth?

And why hasn't every other country in the World with those powers been able to use them to that effect?

There are no magical growth powers. Oil is a volatile commodity and GERS is the best estimate we've got while Scotland remains in the Union. The cry of the ultimate 'jock scrounger', dependence advocate, Kevin Hague and London subsidy benefit's junkie. We've spent a lot of time here back and forth over the years Hamish. When Generali keeps levelling posts about massive London subsidies he's aiming at me or the SNP, but it's you and your dependence culture he's describing sadly.

Are the above news to anyone ? No. Because you've spent so much time shooting down the economic case over the last few years/rerunning the referendum... that you've sadly neglected every other case for independence there is and put all your eggs in one basket. You've neglected the political case in particular badly. Cameron started the ball rolling on that on the 19th Sept silly man. Things have been going in the same direction ever since.

There's too much going on politically at the moment, and to deny what's happening now politically would also make a huge difference to an independence vote is imo a mistake. You've said that current politics and the possible consequences could even have yourself having to rethink your position on independence. There will be loads just like you, tens of thousands of you in fact. GERS won't make an iota of difference, even to someone like you if the worst happens in June.

If not ? Then a gradual prising apart economically is already well in motion. No-one minds waiting a bit longer.

What will you do if there's a Brexit Hamish. Perhaps you could answer that ? Will GERS matter quite so much then ? Or what if Labour lead by Corbyn make a grand revival ? With the SNP now having the Tartan Tory label applied once again with Labour's apparent lurch to the left of them.

* I say you when in most cases I mean 'stay in the UK at all costs' advocates.

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

How can Scotland possibly wean itself fully off the Barnett formula while still part of the union ? You make a great case for independence actually. Either Scotland is an 'equal part' of the UK, or it's not.



There's many in Scotland feel the same about leaving the UK and leaps in the dark. At least 45% in Sept 2014 feel that way. The polls are showing starker differences today re a Brexit.

ICM :- Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
Remain 44% (-1)
Leave 43% (n/c)
the Scottish subsample figures are Remain 60%, Leave 28%.

YouGov :- Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
Remain 39% (-1)
Leave 38% (+1)
The Scottish subsample figures are : Remain 51%, Leave 32%

We'll see about leaps in the dark soon enough. Cameron and Osborne's plunging popularity and the Panamapapers thing is all working against Remain at the moment.

Shall we use all three polls rather than cherry picking the ones that suit your point.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9665

Meanwhile we’ve had three new EU referendum polls since my last update. ICM and YouGov have both published polls conducted online and showing one point leads for REMAIN. ICM’s figures are REMAIN 44%, LEAVE 43%, DK 13% (full details here), YouGov’s are REMAN 39%, LEAVE 28%, DK/WNV 23% (full details here).

There was also new ORB telephone poll for the Telegraph. This is a little more interesting – regular readers will remember the last ORB phone poll was the one showing a Leave lead, extremely unusual for a poll conducted by telephone. This poll shows a seven point lead for REMAIN (REMAIN 51%, LEAVE 44%, DK 5%) far more typical of other polls conducted by phone. Full tabs are here.

As for David Cameron, his Dad may or may not have been up to no good but he appears to be blameless in all of this. In fact this current Conservative Government has done as much as any and more than most to clamp down on tax evasion and avoidance.