The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

And there is absolutely no evidence to show that more people want Scotland to become a country.

I'll have a glass of whatever you're having Generali.

This is about the transfer to powers in their entirety to Holyrood and the dissolution of a political union. Nothing more. And certainly not dancing on the head of a pin on semantics about countries and states.

As for no evidence. That poll you and Hamish were cooing over last week shows plenty of evidence.

Just over half (51%) of all Scots now say that ‘the Scottish Parliament should make all the decisions for Scotland’. This represents a ten-point increase on the figure in summer 2014, immediately before the independence referendum, and is higher than at any time since ScotCen first asked the question in 2010.

At the same time another 30% say that Holyrood should make all the decisions for Scotland apart from defence and foreign affairs – a proposition that is tantamount to what has become known as ‘devolution max’. All in all, around four in five people in Scotland now back the idea of having a Scottish Parliament that makes all or most of the decisions for Scotland.

http://www.scotcen.org.uk/news-media/press-releases/2016/march/more-scots-want-powerful-parliament/


And to be quite honest given the above and the size of this poll, it seems that it's only semantics holding independence back at the present time ( if you read the full article ).

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

it's just so disappointing

another damaging Tory budget
by now I was sure that the polls would be showing 65-70% in favour of iscotland.
I guess the benefit junkies just can't leave go of mummy's apron strings.

when will be ever have a fairer, more equal society where a person from Yorkshire gets the same benefits as the person from scotland

whatever is happening?

Time Clapton, not enough time has passed since the last one yet. You may be in the same position yourself in a few weeks. Those big EU apron strings and subsidies holding the UK back.

islandannie

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Time Clapton, not enough time has passed since the last one yet. You may be in the same position yourself in a few weeks. Those big EU apron strings and subsidies holding the UK back.

Typical SNP garbage
We as in the United Kingdom are net contributors to the EU.

Keep lying and you will convince nobody but yourself.

Rinoa

This looks very odd to me.

http://stv.tv/news/politics/1348724-questions-raised-over-snps-10-billion-chinese-trade-deal/

Generali

Rinoa wrote: »

This looks very odd to me.

http://stv.tv/news/politics/1348724-questions-raised-over-snps-10-billion-chinese-trade-deal/

Interesting that one of the few people that know about the deal happens to be an SNP supporting businessman who presumably could also profit from aspects of the deal.:shocked:

HornetSaver

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The fact that in a year or so it will be Revenue Scotland for income taxes and a Scottish Welfare system set up, is just another example of gradualism in play.

Which is good news for everyone.

If you believe Scottish independence is inevitable then you want it to be an orderly transition, by increasingly insulating necessary governmental departments of Scotland from rUK and vice versa (the NHS, Police, the tax structure, state pension levels, and so on). You basically want Scotland and rUK to do as much as possible separately, except things which should very obviously be centralized, such as defence, foreign affairs and intelligence). To the point that when Indyref 2 comes around, it is largely about national identity, foreign policy and civil liberties.

If you believe Scottish independence is a basket-case which can and must be stopped at all costs, you want all of the above to happen so that softer nationalists can see how obviously the whole thing will go belly up, and that at least if it happens anyway then England and Wales are at least protected to the greatest possible extent.

Generali

HornetSaver wrote: »

Which is good news for everyone.

If you believe Scottish independence is inevitable then you want it to be an orderly transition, by increasingly insulating necessary governmental departments of Scotland from rUK and vice versa (the NHS, Police, the tax structure, state pension levels, and so on). You basically want Scotland and rUK to do as much as possible separately, except things which should very obviously be centralized, such as defence, foreign affairs and intelligence). To the point that when Indyref 2 comes around, it is largely about national identity, foreign policy and civil liberties.

If you believe Scottish independence is a basket-case which can and must be stopped at all costs, you want all of the above to happen so that softer nationalists can see how obviously the whole thing will go belly up, and that at least if it happens anyway then England and Wales are at least protected to the greatest possible extent.

And the massive subsidy from London, it should probably touch on whether Scotland is going to keep the NHS running or close it down to chase a vainglorious dream.

Shakethedisease

Rinoa wrote: »

This looks very odd to me.

http://stv.tv/news/politics/1348724-questions-raised-over-snps-10-billion-chinese-trade-deal/

It's a 'memorandum of understanding'. Not a deal. It was reported at the time, and it's about possible talks about possible future deals. Even the Daily Record can't find anything in it to get excited about.

*

David Clegg ‏@davieclegg 19h19 hours ago Here's the Memorandum of Understanding between Chinese company Sinofortone and Scot Gov. Not particularly exciting. http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0049/00498660.pdf …

* David Clegg is the political editor.

Shakethedisease

HornetSaver wrote: »

Which is good news for everyone.

If you believe Scottish independence is inevitable then you want it to be an orderly transition, by increasingly insulating necessary governmental departments of Scotland from rUK and vice versa (the NHS, Police, the tax structure, state pension levels, and so on). You basically want Scotland and rUK to do as much as possible separately, except things which should very obviously be centralized, such as defence, foreign affairs and intelligence). To the point that when Indyref 2 comes around, it is largely about national identity, foreign policy and civil liberties.

If you believe Scottish independence is a basket-case which can and must be stopped at all costs, you want all of the above to happen so that softer nationalists can see how obviously the whole thing will go belly up, and that at least if it happens anyway then England and Wales are at least protected to the greatest possible extent.

The only event that would accelerate independence is a Brexit. Folks like Hamish, and even the most staunch unionist commentators ( Alex Massie, Hugo Rifkind, Chris Deerin ) have said they would consider their positions if it should happen.

Kezia Dugdale Scottish Labour leader has also come a cropper this weekend by saying the same. Half the party are furious, and she's frantically backtracking, but still..

Kezia Dugdale has hinted that she could support Scottish independence if the UK votes to leave the EU this June. The Scottish Labour leader said in an interview that it was “not inconceivable” that she could back the break-up of Britain if it meant that Scotland could remain a member of the EU.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-vote-may-leave-dugdale-backing-scottish-independence-nxngr99cp

A Brexit will most likely mean Scotland goes regardless of anything else. But, it's not how people like me would like to see independence come about. It's too messy and chaotic as you point out. It certainly won't be orderly.

Gradually though Scottish Labour is diluting it's support for the union, though not intentionally. But it's difficult to see how long they can keep up voting one way in Westminster, then Scottish Labour having to deal with the fallout in Holyrood. Imo, politically, once Scottish Labour turns and starts taking independence seriously, as they will have to to survive. The dam will burst, and the media in Scotland will also have to align itself along more independence supporting lines. They too will have to do so to survive.

Scotland already has it's own completely separate education, NHS, policing, and legal systems. Soon it will have it's own tax and welfare systems too. Gradually, if there's no Brexit, the separation shock is being much lessened anyway should another referendum occur in the future. Boris Johnson is looking like the main catalyst for that at the moment but who knows.

Rinoa

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Scotland already has it's own completely separate education, NHS, policing, and legal systems. Soon it will have it's own tax and welfare systems too.

All you need now is a solution to the £15Bn deficit. Oh, and somewhere to offfload the £40Bn of stuff you currently sell to us each year which will have tariffs imposed after we leave the EU.

Shouldn't be a problem.