The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Dee_Best

Herzlos wrote: »

There's been an interesting phenomenon that the reports on oil reserves fluctuate based on the proximity to elections (I haven't seen it this time), so I wouldn't be surprised if the propaganda machine is claiming everything the SNP controls is in crisis, ignoring that everything Westminster controls is also in crisis.

The "my dad's bigger than your dad" response doesn't answer my question.
That all are in crisis in Scotland is true, as supported by statistics which - strangely - you don't seem to like much.
Whether there is an election due or not is irrelevant, though it might help to point sensible voters in the right direction.
I never thought I would see the day when English educational attainment was ahead of Scotland's, for example.
That won't help Scots of the future when competing for the best-paid careers.

Herzlos

I'm just pointing out how the propaganda machine works - it's the same reason Corbyn is being smeared up and down the place.


I won't deny we could do better than we do when it comes to health, education and crime. The question is will be be able to improve them better on our own, or in a UK that is insisting on leaving the EU with no plan?

loadsacash

Liberal Democrats on 11% - so much for making Brexit stop!

SpiderLegs

Herzlos wrote: »

I'm just pointing out how the propaganda machine works - it's the same reason Corbyn is being smeared up and down the place.

The very best propaganda machines work like this -

Everything we say about my enemy is true.
Everything the enemy say about my friend is propaganda.

Congratulations Herz. You have been well and truly sucked in.

mollycat

SpiderLegs wrote: »

The very best propaganda machines work like this -

"The search for a scapegoat is the easiest of all hunting expeditions"...Dwight D Eisenhower.

Find a scapegoat, demonise the scapegoat, once the scapegoat is exhausted move on the next scapegoat.

In generations to come, once WM/Tories/the english are exausted, the next scapegoat will be a choice of fellow scots (of some description), Brussels, immigrants, minorities, etc etc, that fit the bill of causing all of societies ills.

It's how Nationalism works.

Herzlos

loadsacash wrote: »

Liberal Democrats on 11% - so much for making Brexit stop!

I'm honestly not sure why anyone would vote LD - they are just some kind of unreliable Tory light.

SpiderLegs wrote: »

The very best propaganda machines work like this -

Everything we say about my enemy is true.
Everything the enemy say about my friend is propaganda.

Congratulations Herz. You have been well and truly sucked in.

I don't think everything coming out of Westminster is false, just the bits that fail the fact checks. I am aware of the heavy bias though.


I also don't think the SNP are perfect - far from it. I just think they are less terrible than the alternatives, and as I keep saying; once we get our independence they'll disintegrate and we'll hopefully be able to find a better option.

Moe_The_Bartender

Latest YouGov poll has support for independence down to 44%.

SpiderLegs

Moe_The_Bartender wrote: »

Latest YouGov poll has support for independence down to 44%.

That one doesn’t count though

Herzlos

I missed the paper but one of them is claiming support is now at 51% if Brexit happens.

If it is at 44% another referendum will kill off the movement entirely.

kangoora

Herzlos wrote: »

I missed the paper but one of them is claiming support is now at 51% if Brexit happens.

If it is at 44% another referendum will kill off the movement entirely.

Genuine question, I know the last vote was 55.3% stay and 44.7% leave. I realise that using the first past the post system then all that is needed is a simple majority. Also, this is coming from someone who couldn't care less whether the scots vote 'leave' or 'stay'.

1. If another independence vote should squeak in by 50.1% leave and 49.9% stay, do you think it appropriate that 49.9% of the country should be ignored and forced to leave UK? After all, 49.9% of the scottish population are actively voting against the idea.

That couldn't in any way be called an overwhelming mandate for leaving UK. I'd suggest that a reversal of the previous vote percentage should be a minimum bar, actually even more (60%?) would be a proper mandate.

2. As a follow-on question, shouldn't the 'stay' voters be allowed a 2nd referendum just before any official exit is completely finalised? After all, the current leave voters seem determined to ignore the results of the last vote 5 years ago. IMO it seems completely appropriate for any 'remain' voters to have another referendum before the 'exit' - or is calling for more referendums solely a privilege of the scots who want to leave UK?