The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

You don't like pooling sovereignty with Westminster but will happily pool it with the EU?

I like pooling sovereignty both with Westminster and also with the EU.

But if I had to choose only one - it'd be the EU.

It is now up to Theresa May to find a Brexit solution that works well enough to prevent the break up of the UK. And that's going to look a lot more like full EU membership than a Canadian style trade deal.

Conrad

One solution, England and Wales leave the UK now, and as such can leave the EU right away if we so choose

Therefore the UK won't have left the EU, no need for the Article 50 tap dance

beecher2

Hamish, can you see yourself voting for independence in the scenario where we leave the EU? From what your'e saying, it would it depend on whether we have access to the single market, or have free movement? I wonder how happy those who voted leave would be with that - can see a big swing to UKIP in that scenario.

Conrad

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

I like pooling sovereignty both with Westminster and also with the EU.

But if I had to choose only one - it'd be the EU.

We will have something like ten times the number of trade deals in two years time, ready to be enacted as soon as we leave. Why would you wish to leave all that value and carry on with the EU which has a turd like trade deal record? And bare in mind the supposed financial benefits of the SM are pretty questionable anyway

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

beecher2 wrote: »

Hamish, can you see yourself voting for independence in the scenario where we leave the EU?

Yes.

And there were few people more vocal about remaining in the UK during the 2014 indyref than I was as a life long Tory voter..

From what your'e saying, it would it depend on whether we have access to the single market, or have free movement?.

Correct.

If the UK retains free movement and full single market access then no need for another Scottish indyref.

If the UK allows Scotland to keep free movement and full access to the single market while pulling England and Wales out then no need for another Scottish Indyref.

But if the Brexiters pull Scotland out of the single market against our will then even I would vote for Indy.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Conrad wrote: »

We will have something like ten times the number of trade deals in two years time, ready to be enacted as soon as we leave. Why would you wish to leave all that value and carry on with the EU which has a turd like trade deal record? And bare in mind the supposed financial benefits of the SM are pretty questionable anyway

That's economically illiterate nonsense and I'm not going to waste any more time trying to explain the difference to you between a trade deal and membership of the single market - I'd probably have more success getting a toddler to understand quantum physics.

The UK is absolutely stuffed outside the single market - and trade deals elsewhere don't matter a jot.

beecher2

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Yes.

And there were few people more vocal about remaining in the UK during the 2014 indyref than I was as a life long Tory voter..



Correct.

If the UK retains free movement and full single market access then no need for another Scottish indyref.

If the UK allows Scotland to keep free movement and full access to the single market while pulling England and Wales out then no need for another Scottish Indyref.

But if the Brexiters pull Scotland out of the single market against our will then even I would vote for Indy.

Wow. I'm guessing that would be a fairly heart wrenching vote for you if it comes to it. Thanks for sharing your views, I was guilty last time of living in a bubble as support for independence was so strong in the South side of Glasgow so it is really interesting reading your thoughts.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

beecher2 wrote: »

Wow. I'm guessing that would be a fairly heart wrenching vote for you if it comes to it.

Absolutely.

It would be absolutely heart breaking for me to vote to leave the UK - I feel more British than Scottish - but ultimately I choose national prosperity over nationalism every time.

Thanks for sharing your views, I was guilty last time of living in a bubble as support for independence was so strong in the South side of Glasgow so it is really interesting reading your thoughts.

I travelled the length and breadth of Scotland during the last indyref and knew support for Indy was only in a majority for a tiny part of the country - basically Glasgow (and surrounds) and Dundee - although the high population in those areas meant the vote count was close the reality is a majority of voters in the vast majority of the country, 28/32 areas, wanted to stay in the UK.

But support for staying in the EU is in a majority throughout Scotland - 100% of areas want it - from the borders to the islands.

Scotland would be better served long term as an EU/Single Market member than as part of a diminished UK outside of the EU and Single Market.

I genuinely believe iScotland would see a surge of inward investment, tax revenues, and employment as multinational companies located in the UK for the purposes of serving the single market moved their EU facilities and HQ's across the border to Scotland.

And that an iScotland would inherit much of the UK's pole position as favoured launching pad for EU/Single Market headquartering of businesses given that locating in the rUK to access the single market would no longer be possible.

So yes, I'd vote to leave the UK if that was our last resort for staying in the single market, and under those circumstances we'd have a very bright economic future indeed.

beecher2

That's really interesting, thanks. You sound as if you'd be voting for positive reasons which I think would make it less of a wrench. As we've seen recently, a lot can happen in a short space of time so we will need to see how it pans out. I'm glad we have potential options though, if I was a Remainer in England, I would be feeling that the future was quite bleak.

CLAPTON

seems odd to me to consider access to the EU single market so highly but to give up to free access to the rUK market in exchange