The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

antrobus

Shakethedisease wrote: »

...

We're not governed via YouGov and Survation polls just yet. Only real votes in real elections and referendums. ....

Yes, but only the UK government can hold a 'real referendum' on Scottish independence. Because the constitution is a reserved matter.

Even Sturgeon understands this, so I'm not sure why you don't.

Tromking

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It wasn't glee.. it was outright belly laughter at the likes of Deerin, Massie, Dunt and Farquharson having meltdowns on Twitter over it. The cold hard realisation that the myths they've been slavishly and earnestly punting since 2011 are all total and utter tosh. The average Tory member would have them protesting and screaming about 'pooling and sharing' and the entirety of Scotland out the UK door in 2 seconds flat if it meant a no deal Brexit going ahead.

Hilarious watching what 50% of Scotland already know only too well, finally dawn on those who make a living from selling the UK to Scotland in national newspapers and blogs.

To be fair, you don't sell the UK to Scots based on the views of English Tory members. I suspect the reaction of Scots Unionists will not be as you hope, ie 'the English don't give a stuff about the Union anymore, lets leave!'. As some on here have said they'll vote smart and help preserve the Union that way.

Enterprise_1701C

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You'll be getting one anyway. Appetite or not. You'll have can have your say then like everyone else and at least we'll know the answer between Brexit or independence.

We're not governed via YouGov and Survation polls just yet. Only real votes in real elections and referendums. So we'll be having one of those rather than basing democracy on the latest YouGov 'take' and newspaper spin of any old figures which match the editorials.

That really says it all. Are you sure you're not Sturgeon?

That would be one massive advantage if you were ever to gain independence, we would not have to listen to her whining anymore.

Shakethedisease

antrobus wrote: »

Yes, but only the UK government can hold a 'real referendum' on Scottish independence. Because the constitution is a reserved matter.

The constitution is reserved, holding referendums definitely isn't. So the Scottish Govt will hold one, what's the problem with that ?

Even Sturgeon understands this, so I'm not sure why you don't.

Really ? This was all over German papers yesterday. I've selected some pertinent snippets for you to get apoplectic about. But there's going to be a Scottish vote, and soon so you may as well get used to the idea.

Sturgeon: Look, I am very firm there will be a second referendum on Scottish independence.

Sturgeon: We have started the legislative process in the Scottish parliament to make the preparations for a referendum.

DER SPIEGEL: Again, would you dare to move for a vote even if London says no?

Sturgeon: There needs to be a bit more scrutiny on just how illegitimate and undemocratic a position for a UK government that would be.

DER SPIEGEL: Will there definitely be an independence referendum before the end of the current legislative period in May 2021?

Sturgeon: That's my intention.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nicola-sturgeon-boris-johnson-lacks-competence-a-1273642.html

Shakethedisease

Tromking wrote: »

To be fair, you don't sell the UK to Scots based on the views of English Tory members. I suspect the reaction of Scots Unionists will not be as you hope,

The reaction from Scotland to English Tory Members and their PM of choice is almost exactly as I hoped. More please !

The prospect of Boris Johnson as prime minister is fuelling public support for Scottish independence, according to a poll that suggests the majority of Scots would vote to leave the UK in a referendum if he enters Downing Street.
A Panelbase survey of 1,024 voters, conducted last week, points to a six-point lead for the “yes” campaign if Johnson replaces Theresa May — confirming the worst fears of allies of the Scots Tory leader, Ruth Davidson.

Even without Boris as PM independence support at 49%. With Boris ? :-

June 23 2019, 12:01am, The Sunday Times


Scots will vote to quit Union if Boris Johnson becomes prime minister

However, when asked how they would vote if Johnson were to become prime minister, 53% say they would back independence, with 47% against it.The survey was conducted last week for the Sunday Times.

The poll found that Johnson has a personal approval rating of minus 37 north of the border, behind his leadership rival Jeremy Hunt, who shares an approval rating of minus 24 with Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scots-will-vote-to-quit-union-if-boris-enters-no-10-vr80rkjlg

Arklight

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The constitution is reserved, holding referendums definitely isn't. So the Scottish Govt will hold one, what's the problem with that ?
Really ? This was all over German papers yesterday. I've selected some pertinent snippets for you to get apoplectic about. But there's going to be a Scottish vote, and soon so you may as well get used to the idea. https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nicola-sturgeon-boris-johnson-lacks-competence-a-1273642.html

Yes, and it won't happen. Because Scotland's regional administration trying to force a plebiscite for independence in opposition to the national UK government, would fundamentally be an act of sedition that the SNP aren't going to go anywhere near.

I've said it before. I'll say it again. The SNP want to campaign endlessly for independence, they don't want it to actually happen.

There will be no new referendum. It'll be because of the mean old English oppressing Scots, again. Roll on another decade of SNP grievance and hypocritical foot stamping. Aside from the Tories I can't think of any less appealing political groups in the UK than the Scottish Nationalists.

I know it's hard to understand, and perhaps accept; but Nicola Sturgeon is not in charge of either Scotland, or your future Shakey. That in all probability, is about to become the august responsibility of Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.

Shakethedisease

Arklight wrote: »

Yes, and it won't happen. Because Scotland's regional administration trying to force a plebiscite for independence in opposition to the national UK government, would fundamentally be an act of sedition that the SNP aren't going to go anywhere near.

I've said it before. I'll say it again. The SNP want to campaign endlessly for independence, they don't want it to actually happen.

There will be no new referendum. It'll be because of the mean old English oppressing Scots, again. Roll on another decade of SNP grievance and hypocritical foot stamping. Aside from the Tories I can't think of any less appealing political groups in the UK than the Scottish Nationalists.

I know it's hard to understand, and perhaps accept; but Nicola Sturgeon is not in charge of either Scotland, or your future Shakey. That in all probability, is about to become the august responsibility of Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.

Haha :rotfl:I forgot I'd taken you off the ignore list.

Scottish Govt has voted for and is implementing legislation now. We've gone way past your tame old imaginings of a passive Holyrood meekly going along with whatever Big Treeza or BoJo wish.


The UK Govt will have to issue a legal challenge proving a second Scottish ref on Scottish Independence mandated by the Scottish electorate, legislated for by the Scottish Govt and voted on again by the Scottish electorate is in fact illegal ( despite the fact referedums have already been deemed within Holyrood competence) ... but they don't really have time.

Seriously, the UK Govt do not have the time to go through months and years of legal wranglings over this. Nicola is going to pass that Referendum bill and use it to rush through a 'legal under Scottish Law' vote as soon as Oct is out. If it's a Yes result then it'll be too late to do anything about it. Scotland will start preparations to leave the UK regardless and rejoin a Single Market waiting with open arms to welcome her in ( fishing grounds the Spaniards love fishing in etc ).

England will stand alone with no trade deals, no Scotland, no medicine, Trump pouncing on your NHS and massive job losses as every business with even an ounce of savvy stampedes north of the border to retain Single Market access. NI will soon follow out the door, and even Wales has had a massive upswing in independence support.

The Tories have destroyed the UK as it stood in just 3 years.

Arklight

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Haha :rotfl:I forgot I'd taken you off the ignore list.

Scottish Govt has voted for and is implementing legislation now. We've gone way past your tame old imaginings of a passive Holyrood meekly going along with whatever Big Treeza or BoJo wish.


The UK Govt will have to issue a legal challenge proving a second Scottish ref on Scottish Independence mandated by the Scottish electorate, legislated for by the Scottish Govt and voted on again by the Scottish electorate is in fact illegal ( despite the fact referedums have already been deemed within Holyrood competence) ... but they don't really have time.

Seriously, the UK Govt do not have the time to go through months and years of legal wranglings over this. Nicola is going to pass that Referendum bill and use it to rush through a 'legal under Scottish Law' vote as soon as Oct is out. If it's a Yes result then it'll be too late to do anything about it. Scotland will start preparations to leave the UK regardless and rejoin a Single Market waiting with open arms to welcome her in ( fishing grounds the Spaniards love fishing in etc ).

England will stand alone with no trade deals, no Scotland, no medicine, Trump pouncing on your NHS and massive job losses as every business with even an ounce of savvy stampedes north of the border to retain Single Market access. NI will soon follow out the door, and even Wales has had a massive upswing in independence support.

The Tories have destroyed the UK as it stood in just 3 years.

Well, you've been wrong with absolutely every other prediction you've made since the beginning of the old thread, so perhaps this complicated (and improbable) sequence of events is your time shine.

SpiderLegs

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The reaction from Scotland to English Tory Members and their PM of choice is almost exactly as I hoped. More please !
Even without Boris as PM independence support at 49%. With Boris ? :- https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scots-will-vote-to-quit-union-if-boris-enters-no-10-vr80rkjlg

If ever there was a reason to get boris installed in no 10, this is it.

loadsacash

zagubov wrote: »

Not necessarily. The HE-educated population % in Scottish cities is way more than south of the Tweed. Whether they were all trained locally or came from outside is unknown (to me at least).

Not really - in Edinburgh 63% of the workforce are educated to degree level - in Bristol it is 62% That's not way more!

At the end of the day, people go to where to work is - Edinburgh has well paid jobs, although I do know some people who have trained up here and moved down south to get work