The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

phillw

Thrugelmir wrote: »

MP's come and go............

As the jobs that are waiting for them after their political career is often on significantly more money than they earn as MPs, then I doubt they are worried about threats from angry voters anyway.

It's nice that they stand up for what they believe in.

Shakethedisease

Arklight wrote: »

Crikey Shakey you are 98% of the Nationalist voice since the others all disappeared. Look around you, the stage is empty, you are the last one. The last Scottish Nationalist on the forum.

The others have accepted their fate and got on with their lives. They have moved on, building a brave and hopeful future in the United Kingdom as proud British citizens. Subjects of her Britannic Maj.

Forever.

Thought so. Not enough knowledge or interest in the subject matter or Scottish politics etc beyond trying to troll a fellow forum member. You won't be the first...

Arklight

Scottish politics is British politics Shakey. It's your failure to understand this that has led to you and the rest of the Nats being stuck in the very narrow and very deep hole you find yourselves in.

There was a once in a generation plebiscite, less than 5 years ago. In what way do you imagine the British government will authorise another one?

In what way do you imagine a non official one will lead to anything other than regional chaos and a result that no one will recognise?

The Scottish people don't even want this.

elantan

Thrugelmir wrote: »

MP's come and go............

they sure do ... but it's fun to watch

phillw

Arklight wrote: »

There was a once in a generation plebiscite, less than 5 years ago.

Brexit has accelerated aging.

Thrugelmir

elantan wrote: »

they sure do ... but it's fun to watch

Most are soon forgotten or simply fade into the background as lose all credibility eventually whatever their highest post.

Shakethedisease

Arklight wrote: »

Scottish politics is British politics Shakey. It's your failure to understand this that has led to you and the rest of the Nats being stuck in the very narrow and very deep hole you find yourselves in.

Well at least you're actually stating an opinion on what the debate we're trying to have. Thank you.

There was a once in a generation plebiscite, less than 5 years ago. In what way do you imagine the British government will authorise another one?

They won't. I've been saying that here for the last two years. Not a chance Westminster will ever sanction another Scottish ref. Not with the numbers being on the too risky side. And if an ordinary pleb like me can work that out then you can be 1000% sure the SNP have had plans in place for the inevitable refusal for a long time. Perhaps as long ago as 2011 when it looked like David Cameron was going to refuse one. I debated that here at the time too, glory days.

In what way do you imagine a non official one will lead to anything other than regional chaos and a result that no one will recognise?

1) Nicola Sturgeon only need to hold a vote. An outright 'referendum' on Scottish independence will be refused as we've already established above.

Imo is likely an indy referendum will therefore become a Brexit consultation with the Scottish electorate. Worded in such a way to give the Scottish Govt a mandate from the Scottish electorate to begin independence negotiations - possibly leading to independence

There is no county in the world where it is illegal for the elected Govt in place to consult it's own electorate. The idea would be laughed out of any court. Do you believe otherwise Arklight?

2) There's also the matter of the Union Treaty itself. Entered into voluntarily by two nations to become the UK. Scotland is no Catalonia. Scotland, should it become the peoples wish to leave the UK - via a perfectly legal consulation with them to ask ... simply gives notice, rescinds the Treaty and leaves the UK it voluntarily entered into. Why shouldn't that be the case ? Isn't that what usually happens when countries want to break Treaties, or leave Unions their electorates no longer wish to part of ?

Your own Attorney General is inadvertently punting the Scottish Govt case very well too !

I think the Attorney General just unwittingly gave the Section 30 debate a bit of punt in @scotgov's favour in the HoC just now: "There is always a right to terminate a treaty, unilaterally, if circumstances fundamentally change."

And I really do hope that Mr Cox alters his legal advice within the next week to include this gem. We'll all be cheering him on in Nat land I can assure you.

The Scottish people don't even want this.

How do you know that ? Anyway. Good debating with you, though I'll be extremely surprised if you actually come back and address any of the answers I gave you above. Posting hilarious Gollum meme's might be easier eh.

elantan

have to admit i think if Nicola did that it would be a mistake, not every Indy supporter wants to be in the EU or have the Indy question tied to the EU

elantan

just listened to FMQ ... Nicola is really ramping it up now ... she is getting ready ( finally)

Enterprise_1701C

Shakethedisease wrote: »

2) There's also the matter of the Union Treaty itself. Entered into voluntarily by two nations to become the UK. Scotland is no Catalonia. Scotland, should it become the peoples wish to leave the UK - via a perfectly legal consulation with them to ask ... simply gives notice, rescinds the Treaty and leaves the UK it voluntarily entered into. Why shouldn't that be the case ? Isn't that what usually happens when countries want to break Treaties, or leave Unions their electorates no longer wish to part of ?

You can't just rescind the treaty, it is the authority for the Westminster government. It would mean 300 years of laws/legislation would cease to exist. Why do you think there is so much trouble around leaving the eu. Ironically enough, if you just flicked the switch and rescinded that treaty if would also mean that we were out of the eu, so not such a bad thing in that, but every other law that has been passed in the last 300 years would cease to exist.

You can try to rescind the treaty, but I can't see it being supported internationally.