The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Arklight

Shakethedisease wrote: »

There's just as big a vein of anti-Scottish sentiment running through English culture too imo. A sense that Scotland is nothing more than a region of England rather than a full and equal signatory of the Treaty of Union. It's also disingenuous to ignore this and to pretend that a Hard Brexit without informing or even allowing devolved parliaments a say in the matter is good news for the Union.

The SNP won't change their name. It's another throwaway comment Sturgeon made turned into a screeching headline. There are far more important things to be getting on with at the present time.

I too am sorry about he Tory MP's. However it's probably a necessary part of putting the Scottish Conservatives front and center and seeing them crash and burn when it comes to protecting farmers, fishermen etc from whatever WTO nightmare Liam Fox has planned. Davidson is already angling and lobbying hard for separate policies for Scotland... an independent Scottish Tory party if you will. She and her Tory MP's won't get very far and it's time all of Scotland to saw how ineffective they really are.

Like many nationalists, you are confusing not-being-thought about with, 'anti'.

There isn't any anti Scottish sentiment in English culture because English people don't spend, on the whole, any time thinking about Scotland.

This isnt because English people are mean to the Scots, or that the Scots aren't worthy of thought, its just Scotland has no bearing on most people's lives. How much time do you spend thinking about Yorkshire? Is it because you are anti people from Yorkshire?

If you want to be independent of England because you think its the best thing for your country then go right ahead. If you want independence because you're angry that we don't all set aside 6.30pm to 6.50pm every evening to have an, "Appreciate Scotland" 20 minutes then you're always going to end up disappointed in some way, because that isn't going to start happening when you leave.

Your post actually, and possibly inadvertently, sums up what nationalism is, and patriotism isn't.

I accept that it's a normal reaction to colonialsm and post colonialism. I've heard the same grievance expressed about England in the same way from Australians, Welsh people and Kiwis (but not so much). Americans have spent the last 200 odd years trying to prove they are number 1 and they've ended up with an orange president who can't read.

The point is none of those countries, or the people expressing those views, were improved by them.

Conrad

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Davidson is already angling and lobbying hard for separate policies for Scotland... an independent Scottish Tory party if you will. She and her Tory MP's won't get very far and it's time all of Scotland to saw how ineffective they really are.

Be careful not to fall into the age old trap of assuming the political landscape is settled.


People once said the SNP would never amount to anything, they scoffed at a Trump winning the Nomination let alone the Whitehouse, they said Corbyn would crash & burn, and that the UK Tories after 1997 would crumble due to in-fighting


Always pays to keep a very open mind. I could envisage a Tory victory lead by Davidson - you would do well to look at various recent studies that revealed Scots are more conservative than they let on.

Conrad

Arklight wrote: »

Your post actually, and possibly inadvertently, sums up what nationalism is, and patriotism isn't.

I accept that it's a normal reaction to colonialsm and post colonialism. I've heard the same grievance expressed about England in the same way from Australians, Welsh people and Kiwis (but not so much). Americans have spent the last 200 odd years trying to prove they are number 1 and they've ended up with an orange president who can't read.

The point is none of those countries, or the people expressing those views, were improved by them.

One wonders why then these nations that went independent never then chose to reverse it?

You seem to be implying bigger is always better.

I respect any Scot that feels they are an identifiable 'us' with specific needs they feel could be better catered for with local full autonomy.


All this talk of nationalism is largely a side-show.


I would mention that Brexit for some of us is about embracing local autonomy and thus locally tailored policy making in order be the best we can. Localism so often trumps 'big is best'.

baldelectrician

Shaka_Zulu wrote: »

They haven't got on with anything for the last couple of years! What have they done?

• Completed the M8 link (M8 now complete between Edinburgh and Glasgow- planned since 1960's)
• Completed the M74 final leg
• Abolished prescription charges
• Best performing NHS A&E figures of all UK
• Abolished student fees
• Built over 30,000+ council houses 2011-2016
• Highest / second highest level (of any part of the UK) of inward economic investment since 2007
• Paid peoples bedroom tax through council (can't abolish it as it is a reserve matter)
• Half way duelling the A9 to Inverness
• Introduced RET - road equivalent tariffs- on ferries inside Scotland. Vastly reducing fares - increasing tourism
• Introduced the exemption scheme for small business rates
• Frozen council tax for about 10 years (my council tax went up by 60% in 6 years with Labour)
• Stopped using UK style PFI for new contracts - set up Scottish Futures Trust (link below)
• Introduced laws requiring private landlords to have mandatory electrical checks
• Changed the building standards to effectively ban the type of cladding tragically used at Greenfell (it can't be used in Scotland since 2013 unless it is behind 75mm+ of concrete)
• Hospital infections now at an all time low
• Built the new Southern General (now QEUH) in Glasgow
• Built / refurbished more schools than Labour did (almost all without PFI)

https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/new-figures-show-snp-governments-have-built-more-schools-previous-administrations


https://www.scottishfuturestrust.org.uk/page/positive-impacts

elantan

Nah Bald electrician ... they haven't done anything at all ... that's why people keep voting for them

Also abolished toll charges

And a certain new Bridge ... helped save a steel works ... baby boxes, and sanitary wear for women in poverty , so yeah nothing really ...

Meanwhile WM have given us Brexit

Enterprise_1701C

So basically Scotland have spent a lot of money over the last few years, yet they still say they can afford to be independent.

I have never been to Scotland, mainly because it is a looooong way, but with sturgeon at the helm I was beginning to hate it because sturgeon was constantly on our airwaves whingeing and whining about how she wanted to be independent, therefore how much she hated the UK.

Her desire for a vote before we finally left the eu was patently an attempt to scupper Brexit. She made it quite clear that because Scotland voted to stay in the eu she felt that the whole of the uk should kowtow to them and stay in, and she made it quite clear that she would do anything she could to bring that about. She basically said that so long as Scotland got their way she didn't care about the rest of the UK.

So, I live in England, I voted to stay in the eu but now I feel we did the right thing in voting to leave, especially with the reaction of the eu officers in the eu parliament. We need to be independent, the eu want to become a united states of Europe with no independent countries within it, it would become one big country. Why else would they need a parliament and their own flag? If Scotland want to become independent then join the eu then as far as I am concerned they are welcome to, but it seems to be a bit of a contradiction in terms, there is no way you can be independent in the eu,

Anyway, off track there. I do not hate Scotland, I hate the way Sturgeon treats the rest of the UK, I hate the fact that she spouts hatred of the UK whenever she is on our airwaves. Now she is not getting her own way she is not on the TV so much in the south at least, in fact I have not seen her on the TV since the election, but that might be just because I have not noticed her, so my dislike of Scotland in general has ceased.

.string.

Conrad wrote: »

One wonders why then these nations that went independent never then chose to reverse it?

You seem to be implying bigger is always better.

I respect any Scot that feels they are an identifiable 'us' with specific needs they feel could be better catered for with local full autonomy.


All this talk of nationalism is largely a side-show.


I would mention that Brexit for some of us is about embracing local autonomy and thus locally tailored policy making in order be the best we can. Localism so often trumps 'big is best'.

As usual, though, the reality of "best" is neither extreme of how we organise ourselves in this world.

So, for example, I would not expect my village council to stockpile anti malerial drugs in case everyone in our village gets maleria at the same time any more than I would expect the UN to tell me what times our library should open.

Some decisions are best done at local level, some at council level, some at regional level and some at National level, the dividing lines being an amalgamation of availability of resources and how culture is shared by the inhabitants.

Shaka_Zulu

elantan wrote: »

Nah Bald electrician ... they haven't done anything at all ... that's why people keep voting for them

No they just bribed the electorate for 10 years. The result of the GE was the Scottish people starting to wake up to the con.

Thrugelmir

Conrad wrote: »

One wonders why then these nations that went independent never then chose to reverse it?

They join the EU and expect other nations to fund them perhaps.

elantan

Shaka_Zulu wrote: »

No they just bribed the electorate for 10 years. The result of the GE was the Scottish people starting to wake up to the con.

Well you did state they had done nothing you were wrong there ...