The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

The opportunity is there.
An opportunity which could be realised once Independent.

But why is Sturgeon not doing so now?

A_Medium_Size_Jock

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I've already stated as such



As for the council elections, It was not a FPTP system, it was an STV system and limitations on candidates I think affects the councils seats and precludes that the councils essentially return no overall control.

I don't think you can rest all hope on the council elections for the result of the GE

Ah but I am not resting my hopes on the election.
YOU are.
We soon will see.
So far though the SNP has no clear mandate for another referendum.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

No.
The First Minister is progressing the democratically elected mandate she has and the will of the Scottish electorate.

As for polls, we discussed that and you chose to ignore the latest poll.
In fact you were very dismissive of polls following our last discussion on the matter.

• 57% would prefer Independence in Europe
  as opposed to
• 43% wanted to remain in the UK out of Europe

Source?
Because as we both know, by far the majority of polls show clear resistance to another referendum.
No independence = no EU.
As has been shown here.
Repeatedly.
Why do you refuse to accept that fact?

Poll blow for Nicola Sturgeon: Scottish independence support drops to 40 per cent

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/25/poll-blow-nicola-sturgeon-scottish-independence-support-drops/

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Oh and the latest?

The Tory surge, after a fiercely pro-Union campaign based on opposing a second referendum, is also likely to cause the First Minister to reflect on her plans for a new vote by spring 2019.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15269198.Tory_surge___39_sinks_case__39__for_independence_poll/

Fortunately for Scotland, the vocal demands of pro-SNP pro-independence advocates are decreasing in number.
More and more, Scots are realising the futility and fallacy of this "independence at any cost" stance.
At last, say I.
Roll on June 8th.
:T

cogito

Meanwhile, today we have learned that Saint Nicola has lied about the Toaries committment to reclaiming fishing waters under the CFP. Who says so? The Scottish Fishermen Federation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/10/ruth-davidson-accuses-nicola-sturgeon-grubby-spin-brexit-fishing/#comments

So the Toaries will reclaim our fishing waters for the benefit of all the UK but on joining the EU, an independent Scotland would give them away again.

That sounds like a vote winner.

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I don't believe it is a black or white situation.
I'm open to all colours of the spectrum



There's already a mandate.
It was voted for in the Scottish parliament, following it being in the manifesto and numerous discussions prior to the Scottish elections

This GE will further strengthen that mandate if the majority of MP's returned are pro independence or indeed weaken if the majority is anti-independence



Not at all. You've misunderstood my thoughts, I thought I made it perfectly clear.

I don't believe a Westminster and Scottish government would impact conclude to work against each other in exports between the two of us.

I read somewhere that Scotland exports £50 Billion to the rUK, but imports over £60 Billion from the rUK.

Why would Westminster jeapordise that export with Scotland?

Again - it's not up to Westminster in that situation.

If Scotland becomes independent and joins the EU - YOU WILL NOT BE IN CONTROL OF YOUR TRADE ARRANGEMENTS.

Is that clear enough?

Therefore if there is a WTO deal between the UK and the EU, Scotland as part of the EU has to adhere to that whether you like it or not, or whether there's a will to work amicably together or not.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Solutions will be found and I've already outlined possible solutions for you several times. Scotland will transition with the UK onto EFTA/EEA trade terms. Then stay there while independence is sorted out, following which Scotland will have another vote to rejoin ( or not ) as full EU members.

64% trade and all those jobs will be safe enough since Scotland can still trade freely with rUK. So there you go, there is a 'solution'.

You're going to get a very bad deal from the EU, they keep telling you this. If May even bothers hanging about trying to negotiate one at all.

Should May and the UK look like crashing out of the EU on WTO terms, Sturgeon will call a vote or a fully legal Scottish election vote ( based on independence) faster than you can say 'who needs a section 30'.. with even die hard No voters, previous no voting business sectors, all sorts technology, science, banking and education professionals on top of already 45% of the country stampeding to the polling station in order to secure a seat on the life boat. Not caring whether it's EU, EFTA/EEA or even which party is in charge at Holyrood as long as it's full single market access.

Those are the only facts you need worry about regarding keeping the union intact after 8th June and these Brexit negotiations really start to get going.

EEA/EFTA would allow you to trade with both markets so long as the UK is willing. However the EU is the stated aim, that's what was in the manifesto, not the single market. So you're going to be subject to the EU's trade arrangements and if that's WTO you're going to hurt 64% of your trade and risk 500,000 jobs.

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Just to extrapolate this further ahead of TT83's responce

An interesting read which covers why an rUK government would not want to jeopardise the exports to Scotland and as such the scaremongering over the potentially 500,000 Scottish jobs could be considered a moot point and clearly contrived to be a headline figure to create fear of change

http://www.businessforscotland.com/scotlands-100-billion-of-exports-provide-the-foundation-for-a-wealthy-independent-country/

Ugh why...

What the fu*k does this have to do with Scotland's position in the EU under their trade arrangements?

Can Scotland trade with the UK on anything other than WTO terms if Scotland is in the EU and the deal between the UK and the EU is on WTO terms?

Answer that one, no bull, just answer it yes or no.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Answer that one, no bull, just answer it yes or no.

I am not sure that will be possible.
Besides the fact that straight answers are in short supply, my responding to every irrelevant post seems to have ........... I shall be polite and say overloaded that posters circuits.;)

I am awaiting a good few answers too.

Shakethedisease

cogito wrote: »

Meanwhile, today we have learned that Saint Nicola has lied about the Toaries committment to reclaiming fishing waters under the CFP. Who says so? The Scottish Fishermen Federation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/10/ruth-davidson-accuses-nicola-sturgeon-grubby-spin-brexit-fishing/#comments

So the Toaries will reclaim our fishing waters for the benefit of all the UK but on joining the EU, an independent Scotland would give them away again.

That sounds like a vote winner.

The SNP haven't been happy with the CFP either. And we might not rejoin the EU.. since Tricky says it will put ( at first at least ) exports and lots of jobs with rUK at risk ?

Scottish Fishermen aren't sure what to be at just now. They wanted a Brexit, but at the same time they still want to be able to sell their fish via the Single Market. It really is time they woke up to the plain fact that it's either or, they cannot have both.