The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

IveSeenTheLight

cogito wrote: »

Let me correct this for you.

The SNP gave TM a series of impossible demands which could not be met and then complained loudly that it had not got its own way.

What were those demands?
genuinely interested if you have a link

IveSeenTheLight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

You're not going to have the choice, you will be at the mercy of whatever the UK and EU decide.

Thats the point, a referendum once the facts are known.
Whatever the outcome, I'd expect the UK government to foster good relations with the EU market or for the Scottish and rUK governments to do likewise

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

If that's WTO terms, then you need to choose to risk 500,000 or 120,000, simple as that.

Its not as simple as that.

Why is it an us or them?
Why is there this restriction?
Why can't there be a solution to work with both markets?

Trust me, there will be business dealt with all parties post Brexit or post Independence.

A solution will be found

IveSeenTheLight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Having a referendum on independence before Brexit proper means the UK that the EU is negotiating with at the moment may not be the UK that the EU ends up dealing with immediately after concluding a deal, the very nature of the timing itself is purely in the interest of Scotland - no one else, not even the EU. Some might say that it is selfish. I would absolutely say No to a referendum until the UK has actually left the EU, so Scotland is coming out with the rest of the UK regardless and we can discuss it afterwards but not before, because the lives of many more millions of others will be impacted by the outcome of negotiations on the UK and EU side.

I don't understand how you don't understand this...

I don't believe there is a one fit solution.

The rUK will still be the rUK and any Independence outcome will not change that pre or post Brexit.

Do you honestly believe that the EU will want to rediscuss the terms if Independence occurs post Brexit?

The negotiations should be concluded, that's agreed and then the referendum should occur based on the final negotiated position whether the people of Scotland wish to remain in the UK or be independent.

I don't understand how you don't understand this...

Conrad

Talking of fish (sorry if already posted);


The Scottish Fishermen’s Fishermen today endorsed the UK Government's plans to “reassert control” over Scottish waters after a letter from UK environment secretary Andrea Leadsom pledged to end the "mutual access" arrangement which allows French and Spanish fishermen to trawl freely in Scotland's seas.


The First Mnister seized on sections of the letter which state that ministers have not made any decisions about the extent to which the EU's Common Fisheries Policy (CFP) would still apply in UK law after Brexit - although ministers pledged to ditch elements which are "most unpopular and unworkable for the UK." Ms Sturgeon took to social media to attack Uk ministers after the letter emerged last night “Letter from UK government reveals that Tories are planning to sell out Scottish fishing - again,”






But Scottish Fishermen’s Federation (SFF) chief executive Bertie Armstrong today rejected this interpretation.


He said: "Any reading of this letter in full makes it clear that the UK government is committed to ensuring we exit the CFP and re-assert control of our waters.


"In fact, at our meeting with Ms Leadsom in March she said that we are leaving the EU and we are leaving the CFP. It is evident that the government shares the determination of the entire industry to seize this opportunity to re-generate our coastal communities."


Tory leader Ruth Davidson called on Ms Sturgeon to wothdraw the claims.“Nicola Sturgeon’s grubby spin operation has been found out - and the SNP’s scaremongering has been exposed for the trash it is,” the Tory leader said.


“The First Minister’s hands are all over this - she took to social media to whip up unfounded claims about the UK Government’s approach to our fishing industry.“Scotland’s fishing leaders have directly contradicted her to make it clear they are satisfied with the UK Government’s approach.


http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scots-fishing-leaders-reject-sturgeon-s-claims-of-sell-out-1-4441764

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Thats the point, a referendum once the facts are known.
Whatever the outcome, I'd expect the UK government to foster good relations with the EU market or for the Scottish and rUK governments to do likewise



Its not as simple as that.

Why is it an us or them?
Why is there this restriction?
Why can't there be a solution to work with both markets?

Trust me, there will be business dealt with all parties post Brexit or post Independence.

A solution will be found

You can't have it both ways.

If a bad deal is not a bad deal because "solutions will be found", then there's no need for independence because of leaving the EU, the mandate for a referendum disappears in a puff of smoke.

You look to be going around in circles trying to hurdle this 500,000 job figure and the 64% of trade with the rUK.

The facts are that the best possible deal between the UK and the EU is more favourable towards independence. The worst possible deal is more favourable towards Scotland as part of the UK.

cogito

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Congrats on the 10,000th post, look like I broke the taboo with 10,001 (and 2).

Woo hoo! What did I win?

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I don't believe there is a one fit solution.

The rUK will still be the rUK and any Independence outcome will not change that pre or post Brexit.

Do you honestly believe that the EU will want to rediscuss the terms if Independence occurs post Brexit?

The negotiations should be concluded, that's agreed and then the referendum should occur based on the final negotiated position whether the people of Scotland wish to remain in the UK or be independent.

I don't understand how you don't understand this...

No, you misunderstand.

It's not about discussing terms again, it's about the initial opening terms. Scotland right now is putting the whole of the UK at a disadvantage than if you had shown solidarity and discussed the issue after everyone had sorted out their plans.

Independence, independence, independence. That's all we hear from Nicola, never what's in the best interests of the UK as a whole. The SNP asked voters to "vote with independence in mind" in the EU referendum. There's no co-operation from the SNP, just demands as others have rightly pointed out. These demands, broadcast across the EU by SNP representatives in the EU parliament and the First Minister and others meeting with EU representatives to discuss accession into the EU weakens the UK position.

cogito

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

What were those demands?
genuinely interested if you have a link

Such as a separate Brexit deal which would allow Scotland to remain in the single market. You can google it yourself.

.string.

cogito wrote: »

Woo hoo! What did I win?

A long service medal - Congratulations!



.... or it long suffering medal?!

.string.

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

How do you envisage relations will be between the UK and EU.

Surely the same mantra could be extrapolated between the EU and the UK, or are they reliant on the UK too much to let that happen

You're not as good as you think on analogies. Nor, it serms, introspection.