The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

i understand, the fear of change is a very difficult hurdle to overcome.
Human nature seems to show the majority would prefer to stagnate or go backwards rather than the risks and rewards to make great progressions.



If its a forgone conclusion, then why the fear of allowing the democratic will of the people and MSP's of Scotland?

Lovely.

So.. if it's OK to risk 500,000 jobs on the back of independence for the reason of optimism, why are you saying Brexit will be a disaster? Does the same not apply? If so how can you advocate independence if the optimistic view post-Brexit is better for Scotland than that of an independent Scotland wedded to the EU?

Having the vote when Nicola wants it to happen will introduce problems in the negotiations to the detriment of 92%+ of the rest of the population.

kabayiri

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Unfortunately fear of change is a human nature and politics feed off and historically successful negative fear campaigning.

You're left with someone like Nicola trying to sell a vision to the voters on day one of independence, and the resulting expectations could be your undoing.

It must be like walking a tightrope.

mollycat

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

i understand, the fear of change is a very difficult hurdle to overcome.

This is just complete and utter nonsense.

It's not some "fear of change" that we're all too unsophisticated to appreciate, (other than yourself obviously).

It's an consequence of a high risk strategy that is so obvious in its threat that is does cause concern, (maybe "fear" in some).

Anyway; you talk of fear as an exclusively bad thing rather than the innate warning system we have developed.

If I'm fearful of shoving my head in a red hot furnace, that's a good thing

Unless you think I should just do it, because although there will be short term pain, everything will probably be okay in the long term? *

* I realise this analogy will not meet your high standards but I have tried my best.

IveSeenTheLight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Lovely.

So.. if it's OK to risk 500,000 jobs on the back of independence for the reason of optimism, why are you saying Brexit will be a disaster? Does the same not apply? If so how can you advocate independence if the optimistic view post-Brexit is better for Scotland than that of an independent Scotland wedded to the EU?

I don't accept that there is a risk of 500k.
The report showed that there was 500k of workers involved in the exported goods from Scotland to rUK.
I'm confident that positive minded governments can work together and fotster good relations.
As I would hope with Brexit.

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Having the vote when Nicola wants it to happen will introduce problems in the negotiations to the detriment of 92%+ of the rest of the population.

How does having the vote post negotiations be to the detriment of 91%+ of the population?

The referendum timing is to be post conclusion of the Brexit negotiations

IveSeenTheLight

mollycat wrote: »

This is just complete and utter nonsense.

Fear of change being human nature is not complete and utter nonsense

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/heidi-grant-halvorson-phd/why-we-dont-like-change_b_1072702.html

Effects of Fear of Change
In most cases fear of change stops us from taking action. It often works with anxiety, self-doubt and guilt to help it to do this.

Anxiety: Some stress can be good because it gets us to do something. But there are times when feeling anxious about something new can really limit us.

This often happens if we are not certain about the future.

High levels of anxiety are often brought about by:

rumors about change,
self doubt,
not knowing what to expect,
not feeling our concerns are heard
...and this can be crippling.

When you notice and address these issues people feel less anxious.

Often a good reality check can be very helpful too. Take time to find out if the rumors you've heard are true as this can make you feel less anxious as well.

IveSeenTheLight

mollycat wrote: »

If I'm fearful of shoving my head in a red hot furnace, that's a good thing

Unless you think I should just do it, because although there will be short term pain, everything will probably be okay in the long term? *

* I realise this analogy will not meet your high standards but I have tried my best.

Yes, not the best analogy.
Fear can be a positive thing and it helps humans to prolong their life.
What I was discussing was fear of change and politics thrive off it with negative campainging

mollycat

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Yes, not the best analogy.
Fear can be a positive thing and it helps humans to prolong their life.
What I was discussing was fear of change and politics thrive off it with negative campainging

Yes, I did understand what you meant.

Fear of change is not always a bad thing, just like change for the sake of it is usually the product of impulsive, short term, poorly thought out decision making.

But if you're proposing "fear of change" is the thing that's stopping a clamour for independence; it's not.

It's the fact that most people,weighing up the pro's and cons, have come to the conclusion its a terrible idea, and not worth the economic and human cost.

cogito

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Scotland tried to get an agreement with TM, despite her assurances an agreement would be made.

Let me correct this for you.

The SNP gave TM a series of impossible demands which could not be met and then complained loudly that it had not got its own way.

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I don't accept that there is a risk of 500k.
The report showed that there was 500k of workers involved in the exported goods from Scotland to rUK.
I'm confident that positive minded governments can work together and fotster good relations.
As I would hope with Brexit.



How does having the vote post negotiations be to the detriment of 91%+ of the population?

The referendum timing is to be post conclusion of the Brexit negotiations

You're not going to have the choice, you will be at the mercy of whatever the UK and EU decide.

If that's WTO terms, then you need to choose to risk 500,000 or 120,000, simple as that.

Having a referendum on independence before Brexit proper means the UK that the EU is negotiating with at the moment may not be the UK that the EU ends up dealing with immediately after concluding a deal, the very nature of the timing itself is purely in the interest of Scotland - no one else, not even the EU. Some might say that it is selfish. I would absolutely say No to a referendum until the UK has actually left the EU, so Scotland is coming out with the rest of the UK regardless and we can discuss it afterwards but not before, because the lives of many more millions of others will be impacted by the outcome of negotiations on the UK and EU side.

I don't understand how you don't understand this...

TrickyTree83

cogito wrote: »

Let me correct this for you.

The SNP gave TM a series of impossible demands which could not be met and then complained loudly that it had not got its own way.

Congrats on the 10,000th post, look like I broke the taboo with 10,001 (and 2).