Here we can all be heard for a little while. Part 3

dandy-candy

Another trying to hold it together. Not just the voting, I was trying to be pragmatic about that, DS2 has just received an email yesterday saying he is no longer in full time education and has to start paying council tax back dated two weeks....he's right in the middle of A levels and said he really messed up today's one as he was so stressed. I could cry for him.

codemonkey

Ok, no matter what side of the fence you're on, what's happened is scary and majorly unsettling. But we have to remember that not everything is going to happen immediately including other referendums which may also come to nothing. These things take time for the details to be worked out so I'm going to take deep breaths and relax for now.

Lambyr - apologies for misunderstanding your posts. You do need to talk to E though. For all you know, she might love the idea of living in another country a few years down the line. We're a global society now and most places are only a short plane ride away for visiting friends and family. She might think you're worth it. And if she doesn't, it doesn't mean you need to end things right now. A lot can happen in 5 years.

Dandy - your poor son. That's awful timing. I thought the end of education would have been the end of term, not mid A levels. It's not like he can go out to work when he's sitting those.

onomatopoeia99

I put my friend on the coach back to London yesterday after a lovely week of sightseeing, talking and generally hanging out. I knew she had been having a really bad time following being dumped, but didn't realise how bad until we were actually able to see each other and talk. I won't go into detail but what she told me really wasn't good and she had for a while at her lowest ebb temporarily restarted a behaviour some of you have talked about here as a coping mechanism - she had stopped again before coming here though. A week of eating properly (something that I know is so easy to neglect), sleeping well and being able to relax (something that in the flatshare where she lives doesn't really happen) certainly seemed to help her a lot, for which I am very glad.

This morning's news however, well, not so glad, given she's a citizen of an EU country living and working in the UK for over two decades. One of the things we talked about a lot was the vote, and her words were "If we vote to leave, I will no longer feel welcome here." (note the use of "we", despite her being Italian by birth). So, now one of the very, very few people that I absolutely trust and no longer wants to stay in the country that has been her home for more than half her life. Consequently as someone that wanted the UK to remain in the EU myself, I'm doubly saddened this morning.

Penguin EU/politics, obviously. I will take it out if inappropriate.

That said, and as someone who has always been open about my own libertarian views and long standing membership of an organisation that campaigns for equality and civil liberties, I feel it would be wrong to categorize everyone, or even the majority of those that voted for exit as either xenophobic or homophobic, for it simply isn't true. Yes, some of them definitely, but to assign the views of a few vocal campaigners to all who voted the same way does everyone on all sides of the debate a diservice.

There is enough wrong with the EU that a legitimate case can be made against membership without even mentioning immigration. Not a case I found outweighed the benefits of membership, but I would never deny that serious reform is needed. As for h.o.m.o.s.exuality, it was decriminalised well before the UK joined the (then) EEC and before some other european countries (e.g. West Germany) took the same step. It did not need pressure from what is now the EU, we did it on our own and it will never be undone. Listening to the news today, people are already seriously talking about the posibility of Ruth Davidson being in the running to replace David Cameron as party leader. There is a technical problem that she's an MSP rather than MP, but even the fact that an openly gay person is seriously being put forward as a potential successor for the leadership of the governing party shows how things have changed.

More generally, I see this result as a massive rebuke to the politicians at Westminster (which puts me in the unfamiliar position of agreeing with Diane Abbott), and to a lesser extent at Brussels. With the greater part of the cabinet, the Conservative MPs, almost all of the Labour MPs and SNP MPs campaigning to remain, one might thing that if people voted on party lines then remain would have won convincingly. That it didn't shows how distanced people feel from those elected to represent them. There has never been a serious choice in a general election about policy regarding the EEC/EC/EU in the almost 30 years I have been eligible to vote, people have felt increasingly ignored by the politicians on this issue and that is what led to the rise of UKIP and finally where we are today. There have been a series of treaties extending the competence of the EU on which the electorate have had no say, only the politicians, and finally it has come back to bite them. Unfortunately it will be the people that suffer for it (though 52% believe we won't).

Where the leaders of the other EU countries have failed was in not appreciating how serious this was when David Cameron went to negotiate a few months ago, and refusing to go nearly far enough to meet the concerns of the electorate, concerns that are now being repeated in other EU member countries. Now perhaps they will realise and perhaps they will reform, or the whole thing will crash around their ears.


End Penguin

Lambyr, please talk to E, communication and tackling things together is so important.

Pyxis

Another penguin that is mildly political, responding to Ono.

Ono,
I have decloaked again to thank you for your very insightful post, though my tears are still falling.

So thank you for that, and I am sorry it marred the end of your week with your friend. I am also sorry your friend feels unwelcome, although that is very much not the case, of course. If she lives in London, she is, obviously in a place where the majority wanted to stay in, so she should have no fear if being unwelcome there. :A

I think we all need a big, if slightly damp, hug.......

(((((((((((((((((All WaS's Golden Lights)))))))))))))))))))))))

Izadora

Hi All,
Sorry it's been such rubbish news this morning for a lot of people. The fact that it's my first day back at work after an amazing holiday (I will try to catch up on the last two weeks at some point but I've only just finished clearing my emails) was bad enough but I'm trying to stay positive and am hoping that the outcome won't be any near as bad as I fear.

Loads of love and hugs and squishes to all who want/need them xx

Lambyr

PENGUIN (Politics)

I've clearly not explained myself very well here but just to clarify, I've not expressed the opinion that everyone who voted leave is some sort of homophobe. However, I do find it unsettling that a campaign led by people who hold such views and have stated such views has been victorious, given other experiences and factors.

I'm gonna get off this though cos I can't put what I'm feeling into words properly and I don't wanna upset anyone through misunderstandings.

END

tea_lover

Penguin response to Lambyr, re. politics.

I feel the same, about racism (if I've understood you correctly - apologies if not, I've been awake since 4am!)
I feel so uncomfortable living somewhere that would do so much harm to itself just to avoid the possibility of having to offer help to those who are much worse off. I feel like I don't know this place anymore, and I certainly don't like it.
Fear, abuse, distrust of others... it's won, and I feel utterly defeated.

End political penguin.

Georgiegirl256

Train delayed by over 2 hours, then instead of being direct we had to change at Crewe....am worn out now! :mad: Luckily we didn't have anything much planned for tonight anyhow, will just grab something to eat.

Will penguin this next bit about politics....

Am actually feeling abit pee'd off tbh. I've been debating whether or not to say anything, but it is really really starting to annoy me now that some people are lumping all people who voted leave into the same category of being a racist etc. am talking in general btw. I won't say anything else except that it is so not true for me personally, and Ono has worded it much more diplomatically than I probably would have. :A

Am genuinely interested why people have reacted so strongly though? Not trying to start an argument or anything, just interested in other people's point of views in a bid to understand..

Penguin end.

faerielight

Penguin

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I am absolutely stunned by the results today.I voted to stay, but I knew it was going to go this way. I think the media has a lot to do with this, as did our evil government spouting hate . . If we thought t was hard now for poor people on benefits.. it's gonna get a lot harder.. It's hard to believe that when I was young in the 90's I felt hope for this country and my future.. seems like a distant memory now I hang my head in sorrow for what this country is becoming
I feel very teary today and truly scared.
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penguin end

Waves_and_Smiles

How are we all feeling this evening?

Penguin on a bit of politics

Georgie, don't think everyone who wanted to stay in see's those who voted out as all being racist. There are lot of reasons people voted for both sides. Yes, immigration is one of those reasons for voting out but even then it doesn't make people necessarily racist at all. Some are, some aren't, I would like to think that the majority aren't. I am sure we all know that and no one see's you that way. Have a hug.

Lambyr, I agree that before you consider moving entirely out of the UK consider different areas. There is lot of acceptance in London and Brighton for example, I lived in London and dated women and visited Brighton with a girlfriend and was able to be very open in both places. I know you are hurt an scared but just under half of the population wanted to stay in so agreed with you and frankly politicians views on h.omoexuality were rarely something people thought of when they chose to vote. They had other issue that swayed them. Try to hang on for a while before making important decisions, nothing will be practically changing right now. Huge hug for you.

End penguin

Is this the time to say group hug? Don't all throw things at me at once!