PCP and Diesel Particulate Filter

motorguy

bigjl wrote: »

So you think the salesman and Finance Company were correct in setting up a deal limiting a buyer of a DPF equipped diesel?

How did they limit the buyer?

The buyer could be 1 trip of 500 miles at a time a month.

Likewise 6,000 miles a year is only relevant if you plan on handing the car back to the finance company at the end of term. Very few people do.

You can go over the miles and pay a few pence per mile.

So its not a "limit". You dont get to 6,000 miles and have to walk for the rest of the year. :rotfl:

My Golf 1.6 TDI - we put it through @ 6,000 miles a year to keep payments down, even though i was doing 25K per year. Worked at the time for us, and the "finance police" didnt come round nor did the dealer "shop us" out to any legal department.

bigjl wrote: »

I though you advise was to gut the DPF on this brand new vehicle belonging to the Finance Company, as the Finance Company would have no problem whatsoever having their asset made non complaint to Construction and Use Regulations?

If it were mine and i was faced with not being able to drive it and noone being interested in resolving, then i'd have no issue at all with gutting the DPF.

I'd my 535d remapped with less than 1,000 miles on it. And the 155MPH limiter taken off it too.

bigjl wrote: »

Do you think their legal department would be happy with your opinion that removing the DPF from inside the housing it not actually removal?

I personally woudnt tell them. If they showed no interest in resolving my problem then i would have no issue taking whatever means necessary to make the car usable for me. Unless of course, you'd propose keeping it as an ornament at the front door?

bigjl wrote: »

Or would they simply send the person that did it a four figure bill for reinstatement of a brand new DPF and also likely an ECU as they may feel a third party modifying their ECU rendered it useless due the modifications made?

Now you're completely talking balls. A reprogram renders the ECU useless? :rotfl:

Please, go and read up on it. You're embarassing yourself now.

bigjl wrote: »

And then the owner would have to explain the modifications to the vehicle aswell, a remap and filter removal are modifications, you even have to declare a K&N filter.

God, you really are a doom and gloom merchant.

When i traded in my 535d i told the BMW dealer they would probably want to flash the ECU again as it had been remapped.

And I got them to swap the 20 inch Schnitzers back off it too.

No children were harmed, no one died.

bigjl wrote: »

And you can buy a Qashqui with 7seats. The OP mentioned that Qasqhai themselves in an earlier post and mentioned the 1.2 petrol model.

You cant buy a new model Qashqai <

---

note the CORRECT spelling there, with 7 seats. They previously had a previous model Qashqai +2, which was a 7 seater.

As i said, please scuttle off and read up on the subject matter in hand - you're embarassing yourself even more.

Stroller133

motorguy wrote: »

6000 moles? :eek:


I cant see that its mis sold unless they specifically asked the salesman what to buy and he recommended the X Trail and they have it in writing.

I don't think it was mis sold either. I think the car is faulty. I don't believe that it's a universal truth that a diesel with a DPF is only suitable for high mileage, high speed journeys. Can you provide a link to any car manufacturer that states low mileage will cause breakdowns/failures of the DPF? I know some manufacturers say you need to drive at elevated rpm WHEN the DPF is filling up, but not on a regular basis to prevent it before any warning.

I actually agree that modern diesels probably aren't suitable/economical for low mileage use, but until manufacturers officially declare this then I think consumers are clearly protected when new cars go wrong within the warranty period.

motorguy

bigjl wrote: »

Oh, sorry, I didn't see you standing beside me when I asked him!

Oh, that's because you weren't there.

And yes he said he would fail cars with a gutted DPF. Do you also think an MOT tester is only allowed to do a visual inspection of things like sills?

Ah right is this the same "friend" then who save £6,000 on a £22,000 Subaru by buying an import, when they were actually £19,995 at the time and you could get a £2K discount from your local Subaru dealer?

Just like that scenario, your DPF statement doesnt quite add up under scrutiny.

How can they do anything else OTHER than a visual check with a DPF, just in the same way as they can only do a visual check with a catalytic converter and airbags? If they are there and "appear" to be functioning correctly, thats all they can do - a visual check.

So either your mate is lying to you, your lying to us about what you asked him, or you're clueless about the subject. Which is it?

bigjl wrote: »

If a car is failed for having a gutted DPF then at this point the owner can make a complaint to VoSA and say my car failed its MOT for no reason, VOSA will look into it, ask them if their car has a DPF, at which point the factual answer is it has the outside of a DPF but I cut it open and gutted it. Or they could lie and say is is still there.

It cant be failed for having a gutted DPF, because they CANT TAKE IT APART!!! What part of that are you not getting?

And yes, that fail safe way of finding out - your MOT mate phones the VOSA police, they speed out and CONFRONT the owner "is your DPF gutted sir???". "No". !!!!, we're confounded now lads, BECAUSE WE CAN ONLY DO A VISUAL CHECK.

bigjl wrote: »

Do you think VOSA will say that fine we will make sure the nasty competent MOT tester is flogged and barred from doing MOTs for spotting your attempt to circumvent the regulations by being a pedant.

Or agree that the DPF filter is no longer present.

Which it isn't.

If you removed the baffles from and exhaust are the baffles still there?

If you removed the air from a tyre is it still full of air.

In your head it is.

In my head it isn't.

The trouble is somebody that reads the various websites and hears arguments like yours will not be compensated when they come unstuck.

Even if you gutted the DPF after an MOT the car would still not be compliant to Construction and Use Regulations.

I have linked to the various regulations in the .gov site earlier.

Where did they say gutting your DPF and putting it back in was legal or compliant?

Or that doing so was an MOT pass?

Nowhere.

Maybe you should find a more competent MOT Tester. Or one not so gullible.

HOW WILL THEY KNOW IF THEY CAN ONLY DO A VISUAL CHECK OF THE DPF?

Please tell us?


And again, Catalytic converter - if the unit is present they cant pull it apart to check the contents, never have been able to and thats been happening for years.

Airbags - if it "looks" like the airbag is there, and the lighting is functioning correctly, then thats the only visual checks they can do.

I really dont know how you're not grasping that?

And no, its not just about reading on the internet, my experience is based on being in or around the motor trade and having got probably hundreds of cars through MOT.

Also, i personally know a guy who, as well as vehicle diagnostics removes DPFs but gutting them and reprogramming the ECU. NONE of the cars he has done has failed MOT.

And you want to know the secret of that? BECAUSE ITS JUST A VISUAL CHECK!!!!!

motorguy

bigjl wrote: »

If you removed the baffles from and exhaust are the baffles still there?

No, but the EXHAUST is. Applying your logic about DPFs, if i remove the baffles from an exhaust, then the exhaust isnt there any more!!! :eek:

:rotfl:

motorguy

Stroller133 wrote: »

I don't think it was mis sold either. I think the car is faulty. I don't believe that it's a universal truth that a diesel with a DPF is only suitable for high mileage, high speed journeys. Can you provide a link to any car manufacturer that states low mileage will cause breakdowns/failures of the DPF? I know some manufacturers say you need to drive at elevated rpm WHEN the DPF is filling up, but not on a regular basis to prevent it before any warning.

I actually agree that modern diesels probably aren't suitable/economical for low mileage use, but until manufacturers officially declare this then I think consumers are clearly protected when new cars go wrong within the warranty period.

Yes, totally agree.

And like you, i wouldnt be using the phrase "mis-sold", as thats something very different.

If i go in to a Ford dealers and say i need to tow a 4 berth caravan and the salesman sells me a fiesta and it cant pull the caravan then i was mis sold the fiesta. Thats what mis selling is. IMHO anyway.

Not fit for purpose? Maybe, but hard to prove as again, you need to have expressed what the purpose was in the first place.

Fault? Possible.

I think dealers and manufacturers CANT wash their hands of the whole DPF debacle even though they try to.

Its like that Peugeot engine, the 1.6HDI fitted 2006 onwards to Peugeot, Citroen, Volvo, Fords.

The DPF clogged easily, which put extra pressure on the EGR valve which clogged up, which put extra pressure on the turbo as it had to work harder to push power through the engine, and it suffered from poor oilway design which knackered the turbo.

So you'd a "perfect storm" of bad DPF setup right through to bad turbo design.

And when it happened - repeatedly, to thousands of owners - noone wanted to know.

We took a Focus in with an EML on and down on power. By the time we got it running right it cost us over £3,000, including new EGR valve, new turbo and new improved oilway piping. We'd to pay every penny even though it was a flawed design in the first place.

The O/P will have this problem repeatedly with this car. Someone needs to step up and sort it for her. Its a travesty that the dealer / manufacturer can just wash their hands of this sort of thing and make it the customers problem.

motorguy

bigjl wrote: »

And yes he said he would fail cars with a gutted DPF.

Ask him then is this an MOT pass or fail on the DPF being present?



Is the catalytic converter present on this car or not?



Is the airbag present on this car or not?

bartelbe

You have been mis-sold, the average member of the public isn't going to know what a DPF is or a regen is. It takes a dealer 30 seconds to ask what sort of journeys you do and say this won't work for you. They didn't bother to check, they knew about the issue, it should be their problem.

Frankly DPF technology is a joke, a modern car should be able to do short journeys without breaking down. What would someone do on a finance deal who suddenly finds themselves with a shorter commute?

Waste an hour each weekend, and a load of fuel ragging it down a dual carriageway?

This is why I have an old diesel without any of this rubbish on it.

bigjl

motorguy wrote: »

Ask him then is this an MOT pass or fail on the DPF being present?



Is the catalytic converter present on this car or not?



Is the airbag present on this car or not?

You are just being childish now.

But feel free to post up the Reg No and MOT Cert details so I can inform VOSA.

Let VOSA decide.

The next time I own a Diesel with a DPF I will happily allow VOSA to inspect my car fully at any point in time to confirm that it is fully compliant with Construction and Use Regs.

I assume the owner of the vehicle concerned informed the Insurance Company they use that they have modified their vehicle from standard?

Or are you saying Insurance Companies are fine with such modifications? And do you have a letter of the confirmation of this fact in writing? You can post it up with the owner details redacted if you like.

almillar

And yes he said he would fail cars with a gutted DPF.

HOW WILL THEY KNOW IF THEY CAN ONLY DO A VISUAL CHECK OF THE DPF?

Please tell us?

Still no answer.

You are just being childish now.

It's a simple point for sure, but one you still don't get. The MOT inspector can't poke and prod the DPF. He can poke a hole in a sill, wiggle wheels until they fall off, but he can only VISUALLY inspect the DPF. No-one has disputed that VOSA don't allow it.

Let VOSA decide.

They can inspect it and may find it to be faulty - then you're in trouble, but NOT AT MOT!

bigjl

Who said an MOT Tester is only allowed to check a DPF visually?

Do they have to stand fifty feet away aswell?

I wonder if Motorguy is actually involved in DOF Removals as a business, why else have access to pictures of random DPFs.

I await proper proof that it is legal, other than the links I have provided.

If anybody wants to put their bet in a very shaky loophole based on the wording in the new rules hem go for it.

I won't advise it or recommend it, and I won't do it.

It does make me laugh when people think a Ltd Company being Vat Registered in some way makes them a trusted source of legal information.

Especially when by giving the advise or claims that gutting is fully legal they are doing to MAKE A PROFIT.

I can confirm that by leaving your DPF intact there will never be an issue with Construction & Use Regs and it can't result in a failed MOT except
on emissions since diesels only have a visual smoke check.....