PCP and Diesel Particulate Filter

Johnmcl7

silverwhistle wrote: »

From the article. As it also pointed out, there will be an increase in pollution that could be quite substantial. Worth a read.

Reading this thread has been enlightening: if you can get away with breaking the law, do so seems to be the general view. Looks like there could be moves to tighten up the MOT...

The problem is the DPF only reduces particulate matter, it doesn't reduce other nasty stuff like nitrous oxides which is largely responsible for many of the premature deaths caused by air pollution. There's increasing evidence that the DPF actually makes these and other emissions worse as during the DPF regen process many of the emissions hugely increase and this isn't tested for the car's certification, hence the massive difference in tested emissions and real world emissions.

There seems to be a misconception that with a DPF the car is very clean and without it, the car is putting out lots of nasty emissions but that's simply not the case - even with a DPF the car is producing a large number of pollutants which significantly degrade the air quality so I don't agree with the comments about removing the DPF being immoral, those that are genuinely concerned about the pollutants should reduce the use of their car entirely particularly in cities rather than believe in the myth that their DPF equipped non-VW car is 'clean'

John

neilmcl

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

There's increasing evidence that the DPF actually makes these and other emissions worse as during the DPF regen process many of the emissions hugely increase and this isn't tested for the car's certification, hence the massive difference in tested emissions and real world emissions.

Can you share this "evidence"?

Johnmcl7

neilmcl wrote: »

Can you share this "evidence"?

There was an abundance of it before the VW emissions scandal and even more now since, I'm surprised you're not aware of it this issue.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/10862975/Emission-tests-substantially-underestimate-pollution-pumped-out-by-diesels.html

Diesel particulate filters (DPFs) remove tiny soot particles from the exhaust. In effect they’ve been compulsory for diesels in order to meet the euro 5 standards that came into being in 2009. The small particles that these filters remove can be harmful to heart and lung function, so you would think that DPFs were entirely positive for local air quality.
However, these filters need to be cleansed periodically (a process called regeneration), burning off the soot in the filter at high temperatures. “When a DPF regenerates there’s a spike in exhaust gas temperature, fuel economy worsens and NOx emissions increase,” says Molden. The effect is especially pronounced under acceleration, when the NOx levels typically double compared with the same acceleration with the DPF operating normally.
Generally these regenerations take place outside urban areas when a car is driven at a steady speed for a prolonged period, but Molden and his team have noticed regenerations occurring while testing cars in urban areas at low speeds. “Originally DPFs were configured to regenerate outside of town, but many customers were finding the filters became blocked, particularly when only driven in urban areas,” says Molden. “DPFs now seem to be configured to regenerate at lower speeds.”

On cars failing real world testing:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/30/wide-range-of-cars-emit-more-pollution-in-real-driving-conditions-tests-show

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/14/nine-out-of-10-new-diesel-cars-in-breach-of-eu-pollution-rules-report-finds

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06q6nh2/panorama-the-vw-emissions-scandal

They were unable to get the tested Zafira anywhere near under the limits.

Unfortunately many people seem to believe that their diesel cars are clean and that driving a VW with a cheat device or one with the DPF removed changes it to produce far more deadly pollutants but the truth is that even the current EU6 cars are not clean at all.

John

bigjl

motorguy wrote: »

Bigjl seems to have went a bit quiet? I wonder why?

Because I don't really care

Gut your DPF if you want

Just don't come back crying when you have an Insurance claim denied when the loss adjuster spots the vehicle doesn't comply with C&U Regs.

bigjl

motorguy wrote: »

Article in the Guardian today, highlighting a car with a gutted DPF wont fail MOT.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/apr/17/diesel-particulate-filter-removal-air-pollution-department-for-transport

Do you believe everything you read in The Guardian?

Actually having quickly skimmed that article are you sure you read all of it?

thescouselander

Who cares what will happen at MOT - the op's car is too young for that so it's hardly relevant. Removing the dpf is still a stupid idea though because the OP doesn't own the car and if the finance company found out they'd be in trouble.

Also, there's a lot of misinformation on here about the regen process. Most modern systems can regenerate at low speeds and where a regen has been interrupted it should resume on the next drive. Sounds to me like there is some other fault that is causing the Regan process to fail.

Mercdriver

motorguy wrote: »

Article in the Guardian today, highlighting a car with a gutted DPF wont fail MOT.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/apr/17/diesel-particulate-filter-removal-air-pollution-department-for-transport

The MOT will be the least of the OP's worries if the finance house discovers the work. Remember that officially remapping can also invalidate warranties. You can't push back very hard against someone you rely on for goodwill. It's also not sensible advice for people who are in a similar position who have such a procedure noticed and noted on advisories on MOT.

If I noticed such work on the MOT records of a second hand car I was potentially going to buy, it would certainly make me stop and think. How do you know that the person who did the work did it with skill and remapped correctly? There is potential to harm the value and saleability of a car.

Johno100

Mercdriver wrote: »

The MOT will be the least of the OP's worries if the finance house discovers the work. Remember that officially remapping can also invalidate warranties. You can't push back very hard against someone you rely on for goodwill. It's also not sensible advice for people who are in a similar position who have such a procedure noticed and noted on advisories on MOT.

If I noticed such work on the MOT records of a second hand car I was potentially going to buy, it would certainly make me stop and think. How do you know that the person who did the work did it with skill and remapped correctly? There is potential to harm the value and saleability of a car.

If a tester has difficulty identifying a gutted DPF, then what chance do you think they have of spotting a vehicle has beeen re-mapped?

neilmcl

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

but the truth is that even the current EU6 cars are not clean at all

No diesel engine is "clean" but EU6 engines will have SCR devices, such as a PETU, specifically to reduce the amount of NOx emissions.

thescouselander

Johno100 wrote: »

If a tester has difficulty identifying a gutted DPF, then what chance do you think they have of spotting a vehicle has beeen re-mapped?

I imagine it would be very easy if the dealer attached their diagnostic computer to the car.