PCP and Diesel Particulate Filter

motorguy

bigjl wrote: »

We are never going to agree on this point Motorguy.

If you want to use semantics as a basis for a defence then gut your DPF and then argue the point later that the casing is there so the DPF is still there.

Would a dealer take a car with a gutted DPF as a trade in?

I doubt it as then they would be responsible for putting the DPF back on before selling it.

If anybody thinks a trader (not a dodgy back street trader) will sell and warrant a car with a gutted DPF then I think they are wrong.

A Trader has to sell a car in a fit and proper condition, you can't argue that selling a car that is no longer compliant to Construction & Use Regs is for or proper.

The legislation is pretty clear.

Removal of a DPF is an MOT fail.

If an owner removed the air filter element from the housing on their car and then left it without the filter who would suggest that because he housing is still present means the filter has not been removed.

Whichever chain of thought you want to follow is up to the individual.

But my opinion will never in any way cause you legal issues, will never cause an MOT failure of complications with C&U Regs.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rules-for-mot-to-test-for-diesel-particulate-filter

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/diesel-particulate-filters-guidance-note

You're missing the glaringly obvious evidence to the contrary - there are tens of thousands of car, vans and buses with the DPF removed that have passed MOT because the MOT centre only check for the presence of the box.

Even from the link you kindly provided...

"Garages and testing stations will be required check for a diesel particulate filter (DPF) in the inspection of the exhaust system as part of the MOT test (or annual test for heavy vehicles) from February 2014.

The vehicle will automatically fail the MOT test if the filter had been fitted as standard but is found to be no longer present."

When inspecting the exhaust system if the DPF has been removed they will fail the car.

DPF box still there - they cant check the contents.

motorguy

Heres an interesting article on the subject.

http://www.hypermiler.co.uk/dpf-diesel-particulate-filter/will-my-car-fail-its-mot-if-i-have-the-dpf-diesel-particulate-filter-removed-or-gutted

motorguy

Scenario A - DPF removed from exhaust = MOT fail



Scenario B - DPF contents removed and refitted, not an MOT fail...



Scenario A is all they can check and fail for

MrsB387

The argument whether or not the DPF can be removed is not valid as its not something I would be looking to do.

Customer services have been back in touch and surprise surprise the DPF is blocked because I am not doing enough miles despite me following the advice from the garage in November. Customer services can do no more for us and my issue is now with the dealership and the finance company. The cost to fix will be £180, I have not authorised that yet but will have to because as of Thursday evening I won't be entitled to the courtesy car.

Husband has been in touch with the finance company and they have asked us to lodge a complaint with the finance company. I will look into that tonight. I am awaiting a call from the sales manager from the dealership and the motor industry ombudsman.

Is there anything else I can do meantime?

motorguy

MrsB387 wrote: »

The argument whether or not the DPF can be removed is not valid as its not something I would be looking to do.

Customer services have been back in touch and surprise surprise the DPF is blocked because I am not doing enough miles despite me following the advice from the garage in November. Customer services can do no more for us and my issue is now with the dealership and the finance company. The cost to fix will be £180, I have not authorised that yet but will have to because as of Thursday evening I won't be entitled to the courtesy car.

Husband has been in touch with the finance company and they have asked us to lodge a complaint with the finance company. I will look into that tonight. I am awaiting a call from the sales manager from the dealership and the motor industry ombudsman.

Is there anything else I can do meantime?

Prepare yourself for an eventual DPF replacement.

You might get Nissan to contribute but be wary of them making you sign any paperwork that absolves them of future responsibility.

It will continue to happen. Once you get the car back you will need to schedule in regular long runs to keep the DPF clear.

its a shame you went for the diesel variant. If its the new type Qashqai the 1.2T petrol is quite a perky little thing

motorguy

MrsB387 wrote: »

The argument whether or not the DPF can be removed is not valid as its not something I would be looking to do.

It is a valid argument - Just not now relevant to your particular scenario if you are ruling out doing it.

Dont forget though that loads of people read these threads at the time and later, so its important they are given the correct information (to counter the info they get from bigjl )

MrsB387

motorguy wrote: »

Prepare yourself for an eventual DPF replacement.

You might get Nissan to contribute but be wary of them making you sign any paperwork that absolves them of future responsibility.

It will continue to happen. Once you get the car back you will need to schedule in regular long runs to keep the DPF clear.

its a shame you went for the diesel variant. If its the new type Qashqai the 1.2T petrol is quite a perky little thing

To let you understand why we went for the diesel variant is because the x-trail doesn't come equipped with a petrol engine. We previously had the Qashqai +2 and whilst the 7 seats weren't essential when upgrading our car they were admittedly handy. We did explain to the salesman that losing the luxury of 7 seats was not a deal breaker. They were handy but by no means necessary. I've actually been a passenger in the 1.2 and I quite liked it. Higher spec than what we have but I'm not one for bells and whistles.

You guys have been very helpful and I'll keep you all updated. I may start a separate post in the consumer advice forum.

motorguy

MrsB387 wrote: »

To let you understand why we went for the diesel variant is because the x-trail doesn't come equipped with a petrol engine. We previously had the Qashqai +2 and whilst the 7 seats weren't essential when upgrading our car they were admittedly handy. We did explain to the salesman that losing the luxury of 7 seats was not a deal breaker. They were handy but by no means necessary. I've actually been a passenger in the 1.2 and I quite liked it. Higher spec than what we have but I'm not one for bells and whistles.

You guys have been very helpful and I'll keep you all updated. I may start a separate post in the consumer advice forum.

Apologies - i "assumed" Qashqai for some reason. My bad.

The new X Trail is a lovely looking piece of kit

Its a shame. Definitely. Very frustrating.

bigjl

motorguy wrote: »

You're missing the glaringly obvious evidence to the contrary - there are tens of thousands of car, vans and buses with the DPF removed that have passed MOT because the MOT centre only check for the presence of the box.

Even from the link you kindly provided...

"Garages and testing stations will be required check for a diesel particulate filter (DPF) in the inspection of the exhaust system as part of the MOT test (or annual test for heavy vehicles) from February 2014.

The vehicle will automatically fail the MOT test if the filter had been fitted as standard but is found to be no longer present."

When inspecting the exhaust system if the DPF has been removed they will fail the car.

DPF box still there - they cant check the contents.

So you opinion is reliant on incompetent MOT Testers?

I posted the links to the .gov site, I don't really care what A Hypermiler says.

I have read the new Regulations.

Spoken to a trusted MoT tester,

And based my opinion on that.

Or are you saying that if I remove my air filter but leave the housing the filter is still there?

The casing is not the DPF filter in the same way air filter housing is not the air filter.

How many of these DPF Removers and Mappers will even be around in a year or so?

How many will give you a cast iron personal guarantee that there is nothing wrong with gutting a DPF?

They might do so on heir Ltd Co headed notepaper, Companies can be dissolved in a few days. But would they give a personal guarantee?

bigjl

MrsB387 wrote: »

To let you understand why we went for the diesel variant is because the x-trail doesn't come equipped with a petrol engine. We previously had the Qashqai +2 and whilst the 7 seats weren't essential when upgrading our car they were admittedly handy. We did explain to the salesman that losing the luxury of 7 seats was not a deal breaker. They were handy but by no means necessary. I've actually been a passenger in the 1.2 and I quite liked it. Higher spec than what we have but I'm not one for bells and whistles.

You guys have been very helpful and I'll keep you all updated. I may start a separate post in the consumer advice forum.

Remember they sold you this diesel vehicle on the basis of a 6000 mile per annum PCP then they knew from the outset that you did 6000 miles a year as per the agreement.

I personally think you should talk to the Finance Company as the goods are not fit for the purpose that they were intended, which is to do 6000 miles a year.

You often find the Finance Company can be a lot of help as it is their asset that is being problematic.

The more I think about it the more I think you are being given the runaround by Mechanics that are trying to fob you off with the incorrect use rubbish when there is a possible issue with the vehicle.

I had that once with the Service bloke at Jag, he asked what was my average speed, I replied it was 23mph, he said that was too low and was the problem, I reset both trip meters and did another few thousand miles (fortnight or so) and went back with the same issue and when he mentioned my average speed it was now nearly 40mph.

Which stopped his fobbing off routine as he had previously said the magic number was 30mph. It turned out to be faulty DPF Sensors, I got a Regen, free oil and oil filter and the car was fine for nearly 18months, after the inlet manifold was changed and cambelt service done it started to go straight to Red again, the opportunity to VT was there so I did so. The Finance Company were kept in the loop via Email of any problems the car presented with.

Don't forget though that if you ignore the Amber light for a couple of days then you will only cause more problems.

But phone the finance company when you have the chance.


You should have been advised to buy the petrol imho, but again none of us where there when you did the deal.