PCP and Diesel Particulate Filter

almillar

Its not incompetence - its all they're allowed to do - a visual check that the "DPF" is there.

bigjl is really having trouble here. No incompetent MOT testers. bigjl - do you know what a visual inspection is? It's with your eyes only.
No point complaining about petrol engines getting complicated with turbochargers when diesels have been ahead with using them for years.

MrsB387

Complaints lodged with the finance company and the dealership. Off to 'pay under protest' for the work that I had to authorise and pick up my car.

We've today had a letter from the finance company saying they have 8 weeks to give us their final decision and as far as I can tell the sales manager from the dealership has not read my email as I have had no receipt to say he has done so. I have from my husband who was copied into the email.

I'll update later.

tonyh66

MrsB387 wrote: »

Complaints lodged with the finance company and the dealership. Off to 'pay under protest' for the work that I had to authorise and pick up my car.

We've today had a letter from the finance company saying they have 8 weeks to give us their final decision and as far as I can tell the sales manager from the dealership has not read my email as I have had no receipt to say he has done so. I have from my husband who was copied into the email.

I'll update later.

you should really complain in writing not email to the dealership, create papertrail, im guessing the salesman pointed you at an Xtrail to gain maximum commision out of the sale.

bigjl

motorguy wrote: »

And another analogy - catalytic converters

From the MOT Tester forum

http://forums.motester.co.uk/forum3/2708.html

A catalytic converter has to be present if the car was built with one, however if it passes its MOT test on emissions then as long as the catalytic converter is present, they cant check the contents - hence people can gut catalytic converters and their car still pass.

So if Catalytic converters must merely be present, and airbags must merely be present, i'm not sure why bigjl thinks its different for DPFs given its the same wording?

This is getting nowhere Paul.

You can continue to have your opinion and I will keep mine.

Nothing wrong with disagreeing.

I expect you to stick to your guns, which is fair.

bigjl

tonyh66 wrote: »

you should really complain in writing not email to the dealership, create papertrail, im guessing the salesman pointed you at an Xtrail to gain maximum commision out of the sale.

An electronic "paper trail" is just as good imho.

You can prove if and when things have been read and no excuses like their reply was lost in the post.

Getting the Finance Company in on the situation is the best move.

Clearly the dealer should not be advising people to buy a DPF equipped on the basis of doing 6000moles a year.

To be honest I don't see the point in having a PCP on a brand new car to do 6000 miles a year, it would make more sense to me to just have a proper HP agreement.

If I was the salesman I would have advised the smaller Qashqui in petrol form but he was in a bit of a no win situation as it is likely the OP had made the choice to buy an X Trail and would have walked away and bought elsewhere if they never heard what they wanted to hear.

Would the OP have had an issue with misselling if the DPF had not been troublesome? Probably not.

MrsB387

tonyh66 wrote: »

you should really complain in writing not email to the dealership, create papertrail, im guessing the salesman pointed you at an Xtrail to gain maximum commision out of the sale.

As long as I have read receipts and delivery notifications why would letter writing be better?

Sales manager has read my email, this was forced by me asking to speak with him at the garage. He has informed me that he now has to inform the director but before that he has to get a file together. I have asked him to put that all back to me in an email which he assures me he will. If he doesn't I have stated in the original email of complaint that i need in writing the company's stance within 5 working days.

He certainly made all the rights noises but I have taken that with a large pinch of salt!

motorguy

bigjl wrote: »

This is getting nowhere Paul.

You can continue to have your opinion and I will keep mine.

Nothing wrong with disagreeing.

I expect you to stick to your guns, which is fair.

It getting nowhere because you wont accept that all they can do is a visual check.

I'm going to leave it at that, but next time you're talking to your MOT Tester mate, instead of asking him "will a car pass MOT with the DPF removed", to which the answer is "no", ask him "will a car pass MOT if the DPF unit is gutted but still intact and in place".

I'll leave you with that thought, because everyone here knows the correct answer, as does your MOT Tester mate.

motorguy

bigjl wrote: »

Clearly the dealer should not be advising people to buy a DPF equipped on the basis of doing 6000moles a year.

6000 moles? :eek:

I would suspect the salesman and salesmen generally dont "advise" people to buy a diesel, its what the people want.

From memory of this thread, i think the O/P had a preference for 7 seats, so the X Trail was the only choice and it only comes in a diesel.

bigjl wrote: »

To be honest I don't see the point in having a PCP on a brand new car to do 6000 miles a year, it would make more sense to me to just have a proper HP agreement.

Why? Its still ideal for people who just want to run a car for a set time without a massive capital outlay or massive monthly payments.

bigjl wrote: »

If I was the salesman I would have advised the smaller Qashqui in petrol form but he was in a bit of a no win situation as it is likely the OP had made the choice to buy an X Trail and would have walked away and bought elsewhere if they never heard what they wanted to hear.

I think it was to do with the number of seats.

bigjl wrote: »

Would the OP have had an issue with misselling if the DPF had not been troublesome? Probably not.

Then they wouldnt be having these problems?

I cant see that its mis sold unless they specifically asked the salesman what to buy and he recommended the X Trail and they have it in writing.

bigjl

So you think the salesman and Finance Company were correct in setting up a deal limiting a buyer of a DPF equipped diesel?

I though you advise was to gut the DPF on this brand new vehicle belonging to the Finance Company, as the Finance Company would have no problem whatsoever having their asset made non complaint to Construction and Use Regulations?

Do you think their legal department would be happy with your opinion that removing the DPF from inside the housing it not actually removal?

Or would they simply send the person that did it a four figure bill for reinstatement of a brand new DPF and also likely an ECU as they may feel a third party modifying their ECU rendered it useless due the modifications made?

And then the owner would have to explain the modifications to the vehicle aswell, a remap and filter removal are modifications, you even have to declare a K&N filter.


And you can buy a Qashqui with 7seats. The OP mentioned that Qasqhai themselves in an earlier post and mentioned the 1.2 petrol model.

bigjl

motorguy wrote: »

It getting nowhere because you wont accept that all they can do is a visual check.

I'm going to leave it at that, but next time you're talking to your MOT Tester mate, instead of asking him "will a car pass MOT with the DPF removed", to which the answer is "no", ask him "will a car pass MOT if the DPF unit is gutted but still intact and in place".

I'll leave you with that thought, because everyone here knows the correct answer, as does your MOT Tester mate.

Oh, sorry, I didn't see you standing beside me when I asked him!

Oh, that's because you weren't there.

And yes he said he would fail cars with a gutted DPF. Do you also think an MOT tester is only allowed to do a visual inspection of things like sills?

If a car is failed for having a gutted DPF then at this point the owner can make a complaint to VoSA and say my car failed its MOT for no reason, VOSA will look into it, ask them if their car has a DPF, at which point the factual answer is it has the outside of a DPF but I cut it open and gutted it. Or they could lie and say is is still there.

Do you think VOSA will say that fine we will make sure the nasty competent MOT tester is flogged and barred from doing MOTs for spotting your attempt to circumvent the regulations by being a pedant.

Or agree that the DPF filter is no longer present.

Which it isn't.

If you removed the baffles from and exhaust are the baffles still there?

If you removed the air from a tyre is it still full of air.

In your head it is.

In my head it isn't.

The trouble is somebody that reads the various websites and hears arguments like yours will not be compensated when they come unstuck.

Even if you gutted the DPF after an MOT the car would still not be compliant to Construction and Use Regulations.

I have linked to the various regulations in the .gov site earlier.

Where did they say gutting your DPF and putting it back in was legal or compliant?

Or that doing so was an MOT pass?

Nowhere.

Maybe you should find a more competent MOT Tester. Or one not so gullible.