The labour party really is finished, isnt it?

CLAPTON

zarf2007 wrote: »

My only concern is that Corbyn realises soon that he is fighting a losing battle and formulates a coalition strategy between Labour, SNP, Green Party and Plaid Cymru as a last desperate means to gain some sort of power.....

Think about it, if you were his age and this was your only shot at leading would you do a deal with the devil?

given Corbyn can't even formulate a coalition strategy within the labour party, the idea there might be a coalition with the other loonies seems unlikely.

ukcarper

CLAPTON wrote: »

given Corbyn can't even formulate a coalition strategy within the labour party, the idea there might be a coalition with the other loonies seems unlikely.

I think its not beyond the realms of possibility that he could form a coalition with parties mentioned but if he did he would still not be in power.

zarf2007

ukcarper wrote: »

I think its not beyond the realms of possibility that he could form a coalition with parties mentioned but if he did he would still not be in power.

True, but he would not be in sole power but he would have more power than he has now and would relish the fact that he could force his idiotic views down peoples throats.

ukcarper

zarf2007 wrote: »

True, but he would not be in sole power but he would have more power than he has now and would relish the fact that he could force his idiotic views down peoples throats.

He wouldn't be in power sole or other and unless you are in government you have no real power.

kinger101

zarf2007 wrote: »

My only concern is that Corbyn realises soon that he is fighting a losing battle and formulates a coalition strategy between Labour, SNP, Green Party and Plaid Cymru as a last desperate means to gain some sort of power.....

The Greens and Plaid Cymru are hardly likely to be relevant in terms of coalitions, having 4 MPs between them. If Corbyn stays, there's still no chance of a coalition as it's almost certainly another Conservative majority.

If Corbyn goes and we get a hung parliament, I think Labour + SNP + SDLP only works if it looks more stable than whatever the Conservatives can table. But the convention is still that the largest party gets the first stab at it.

All we know is CON + SNP would never happen, as it would be the end of the SNP, whereas LAB + SNP strengthens SNPs hand considerably.

Back to the original point, Corbyn already knows he's lost. He just doesn't care as he does not want to be PM. He just wants to hijack the Labour party and make it a pressure group.

ruggedtoast

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

That's just nonsensical. As the only way "people who care about social democracy" can implement policies that reflect their outlook is to first get elected into power and form a government. Which is the entire point and purpose of being a political party rather than merely a campaigning group.

The population as a whole will elect the party that best reflects their views and that they think will be best for them and their families.

At the moment, like it or not, that is the Tories.

Who not only won an outright majority of seats at the last election but have increased their lead in the polls since.

If Labour want to become relevant again and actually change anything important then they need to change their positions so as to reflect the views of enough voters that they can get elected into power.

What they're actually doing is just sitting around being unelectable, dogmatically holding positions that the electorate doesn't want to vote for, and hoping the population will one day change their views and come to them.

Which might be a great way to keep the left wing of the party happy but it's not a very effective route back into government.

Godwin's law!

In the 1930s the party that best represented people's views in Germany were the Nazis.

I don't think it's the job of opposition to just parrot what people already think. It's to find a way to get their message across.

ruggedtoast

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Cameron won't be around in 2020. The likelyhood is that whoever wins the leadership will take the Conservatives even more rightwards. Corbyn has stopped Labour in it's tracks marching right trying to unsuccessfully match them. It will only take Labour to elect a leader slightly more moderate than Corbyn to make a huge difference to party unity. And for the Tories to elect a leader such as Johnson or May to go too far right. There's a long way to go yet.

But stuffing the House of Lords, boundary changes and cutting short money will make things a whole lot more challenging for Labour. Blair didn't face any of those.

All good points.

There is so much focus on Labour in the Tory media that they are somewhat overlooking the chaos in their own party.

Cameron is on the way out. Personally I would love to see Boris take over now it appears that many people have finally woken up to what a nasty piece of work he is.

N1AK

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Godwin's law!

In the 1930s the party that best represented people's views in Germany were the Nazis.

I don't think it's the job of opposition to just parrot what people already think. It's to find a way to get their message across.

I think that's an oversimplification. Although Germans clearly supported the National Socialists in the 1933 election there are two issues with your statement:
1/ The Nazis quickly moved to quash any other political movement and there was no other meaningful election in the rest of the 30's.
2/ The Nazi platform 1930's wasn't just "Jews are evil" and even where it was focused on Jews it was usually in the context of the mistreatment of Germans and Germany since the treaty of Versailles or the gap between the powerful and the unfairly treated workers.

It's not like the Germans who voted for them in the 1933 election were voting for someone making statements like Trump; if anything the rhetoric of Sanders (highlighting the power of the elite) is closer; I'm certainly not saying Sanders is anything like the Nazis, simply that they used some similar rhetoric.

N1AK

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Cameron is on the way out. Personally I would love to see Boris take over now it appears that many people have finally woken up to what a nasty piece of work he is.

My worry is that given the dislike for Corbyn and Labour more generally at the moment almost anyone running as a conservative could win, including two-faced manipulative power-hungry moral vacuums like Boris

I live in hope that Osborne manages to get the leadership given the other contenders; but I don't think he appeals to the public enough.

Generali

N1AK wrote: »

My worry is that given the dislike for Corbyn and Labour more generally at the moment almost anyone running as a conservative could win, including two-faced manipulative power-hungry moral vacuums like Boris

I live in hope that Osborne manages to get the leadership given the other contenders; but I don't think he appeals to the public enough.

Don't write off Ms May.

The Tories have already shown that they will unite behind a woman as have the British people. I can't think of another cabinet minister that has managed to stay this long at the Home Office without destroying their own career.