The labour party really is finished, isnt it?

westernpromise

It's actually quite hard to see how the Labour Party could function in contesting elections, in the wake of a coup whereby the PLP used a rulebook ambiguity to oust the leader 60% of the grassroots voted for, and who has never faced the electorate or merited dismissal by having lost an election.

It might be like the Tories deposing Thatcher. Although doing badly in the polls, she was popular among the grassroots and Heseltine was hated for wielding the knife. So he didn't succeed her and somebody else did.

There are some important differences though. The Tories were already in power and stayed there in 1992 because the opposition leader was not credible PM material. Labour is not in power and would be assassinating a leader for whom 60% of the members voted, so as to replace him with someone that 16% at most voted for last time (if Burnham stood again) or indeed someone nobody at all voted for last time. The Tories in 1990 could affrod to feud because they faced a ginger twit as Leader of the Opposition, an advantage Labour today lacks.

They probably shouldn't seek solace in the idea that the EU referendum will split the Tories, either, because it'll split Labour too.

kinger101

westernpromise wrote: »

They probably shouldn't seek solace in the idea that the EU referendum will split the Tories, either, because it'll split Labour too.

And let's not make any mistake. Corbyn wants out of the EU. His voting record shows he is opposed to it. He might be saying different in public, but we can see he has no passion for staying in.

Miliband had many faults, but he was clear on wanting to be in, and the reasons why.

antrobus

kinger101 wrote: »

And let's not make any mistake. Corbyn wants out of the EU. His voting record shows he is opposed to it. He might be saying different in public, but we can see he has no passion for staying in. ...

The next Labour government, committed to radical, socialist policies for reviving the British economy, is bound to find continued membership a most serious obstacle to the fulfilment of those policies. In particular the rules of the Treaty of Rome are bound to conflict with our strategy for economic growth and full employment, our proposals on industrial policy and for increasing trade, and our need to restore exchange controls and to regulate direct overseas investment.


Membership of the EU is not compatible with any version of 'socialism'.


At least that bloke Benn had a strategy that was logically consistent. It might well have been wrong, but it was logically consistent.

Shakethedisease

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 56 mins56 minutes ago Westminster voting intention:

CON: 36% (-3)

LAB: 36% (+4)

UKIP: 11% (-)

LDEM: 8% (+1)

GRN: 3% (-1) (via ICM)

Only one poll but.. klaxon.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Only one poll but.. klaxon.

I expect Labour to hold a lead after Wednesday's budget.

Though the poll will be more a voice of dissatisfaction than an endorsement of Labour policy.

As previous Chancellors have down over the years. Announce the bad news mid term. Then everyone forgets by the time it actually comes into force.

michaels

Thrugelmir wrote: »

I expect Labour to hold a lead after Wednesday's budget.

Though the poll will be more a voice of dissatisfaction than an endorsement of Labour policy.

As previous Chancellors have down over the years. Announce the bad news mid term. Then everyone forgets by the time it actually comes into force.

Normally....but don't forget there is a referendum to win and some people will take any vote as a chance to vote against an unpopular govt.

Feels very odd that a left wing labour party is in favour of Europe - or be it so far in an extremely lukewarm manner. I guess the plan is to keep quiet to avoid being on the same platform as the Tories or appear too pro immigration...

Mistermeaner

Tory's appear to be lurching left. What on earth is help to save. I voted to pay less tax not more

antrobus

michaels wrote: »

....Feels very odd that a left wing labour party is in favour of Europe - or be it so far in an extremely lukewarm manner. ....

I know, I know. It just it ain't right. It's supposed to be a bl00dy 'booses club' !!!!!!. Now when I was a lad, every self-respecting revolutionary knew that we had to leave the Common Market in order to build socialism. Nowadays a lot of 'em have turned into wusses waffling on about the social chapter. I tell you what; they're going to be the first up against the wall, when the time comes.

michaels

antrobus wrote: »

I know, I know. It just it ain't right. It's supposed to be a bl00dy 'booses club' !!!!!!. Now when I was a lad, every self-respecting revolutionary knew that we had to leave the Common Market in order to build socialism. Nowadays a lot of 'em have turned into wusses waffling on about the social chapter. I tell you what; they're going to be the first up against the wall, when the time comes.

Hear Hear, as a true revolutionary socialist one can hate and despise the capitalist enemies of the people but at least they are merely fulfilling their Marxist didactic, it is the wossie european social democrats who are merely the lap dogs of the capitalist elite and try to usurp the natural triumph of the proletariat who should be sent to the communes for re-education..

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Only one poll but.. klaxon.

Interesting poll. I suspect it's a flash in the pan but time will tell.

Some interesting commentary on the poll here by the people that did it:

http://www.icmunlimited.com/media-centre/media-center/guardian-poll-march-2016

However, the headline figures are somewhat misleading, and few should be in any doubt of ICM’s view of our own survey. Firstly, both the Conservative and Labour shares are affected by rounding, with the Conservative’s 36.4% being rounded down and Labour’s 35.6% being rounded up, thus creating parity. However, if only 1 or 2 people had fallen a different way on this poll, there would have at least been a 2-point Conservative lead.



Secondly, ICM has developed a new method of turnout modelling, which, we think, much better controls for raw poll samples’ often observed tendency to contain too many Labour voters/intenders. Had we applied our new model, it alone would have resulted in a 3-point Conservative lead on our headline figures. We plan on launching this new modelling in the very near future, although it will remain a work-in-progress.