EU Deal - Money still sent to other economies

Generali

Graham_Devon wrote: »

True, currently.

I'm not sure a particular group is needed for the out campaign though. Theres an entire political party devoted to it for a start.

With the recent polls and now Cameron and his negotiation, the IN campaign appears to be doing the work of the OUT campaign.

The IN Campaign need to be careful that they don't panic and simply end up walking down the well troden path of threats and fear. I don't think that's going to work as I think it's been overused - though I could be wrong.

People tend to vote with the status quo and both sides know it or at least should. The boss of YouGov has written an interesting piece about the latest EU polling:

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9616

The poll was conducted on Wednesday and Thursday so in the context of some very negative press coverage. To some degree this may be a short term reaction based upon that, and we may see things revert back to the neck-and-neck position as the impact fades. Indeed, when people were asked in the poll how they would vote if Cameron managed to secure the draft deal at the EU meeting in February the LEAVE lead dropped back to three points, far more typical for YouGov’s polling. We shall see.

mrginge wrote: »

People who may aspire to lead a political party may wish to avoid signing their career death warrant by leading a campaign to do the exact opposite of what a large number of their MPs and members want.

Maybe. There are plenty of Tories that believe in the EU. There has never, that I am aware of, been a leader of the Tories that wanted to take the UK out while there has been at least one Labour leader that has.

There is a reasonable minority of Tory MPs that want out of the EU but they are very much in the minority. When it comes to voters, UKIP seems to be taking many more votes from Labour than the Tories.

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

People tend to vote with the status quo and both sides know it or at least should. The boss of YouGov has written an interesting piece about the latest EU polling:

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9616





Maybe. There are plenty of Tories that believe in the EU. There has never, that I am aware of, been a leader of the Tories that wanted to take the UK out while there has been at least one Labour leader that has.

There is a reasonable minority of Tory MPs that want out of the EU but they are very much in the minority. When it comes to voters, UKIP seems to be taking many more votes from Labour than the Tories.

some might say the Wiliam Hague was once a euro sceptic although in recent times he has been seduced by the the establishment and the opportunities to play on the wider stage.

BarleyGB

Im more scared by the consequences of voting to stay than leaving, no one warns about this might mean. I fear it will taken as a open season by the EU bureaucrats to plough ahead regardless, if you think we're taken for granted now just wait until we've effectively given them are asses.



We're negotiating with:


EU President Donald Tusk, together with EU High Representative/Vice-President Mogherini and Commissioners Hahn and Stylanides,


Who the !!!! are these people and when did our country bow down on its knees to them requiring permission to change benefits funded by the UK tax payer. Its not like its even our net contribution to the EU being negotiated over.


Im sick of this whole charade, how can any politician paint it as anything other than an insult?

angrypirate

Generali wrote: »

People tend to vote with the status quo and both sides know it or at least should. The boss of YouGov has written an interesting piece about the latest EU polling:

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9616





Maybe. There are plenty of Tories that believe in the EU. There has never, that I am aware of, been a leader of the Tories that wanted to take the UK out while there has been at least one Labour leader that has.

There is a reasonable minority of Tory MPs that want out of the EU but they are very much in the minority. When it comes to voters, UKIP seems to be taking many more votes from Labour than the Tories.

True, but I think more and more voters are realising the "Status quo" of staying in the EU is not actually a status quo but rather having more and more laws dictated to us from the EU that we are unable to reject or overrule.

mrginge

Generali wrote: »

Maybe. There are plenty of Tories that believe in the EU. There has never, that I am aware of, been a leader of the Tories that wanted to take the UK out while there has been at least one Labour leader that has.

In the context of the current political climate, that is irrelevant.

There is a reasonable minority of Tory MPs that want out of the EU but they are very much in the minority. When it comes to voters, UKIP seems to be taking many more votes from Labour than the Tories.

I distinctly heard David Davies say the other week that a majority of backbench conservative MPs would be voting leave.

Perhaps he's made that up, perhaps not.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Well you appear to have no trouble having an opinion on everyone elses opinion?

As for my opinion - as you may have guessed, I'm now a firm out voter. I did say I would wait for this deal, but it's of little surprised that such a poor deal has my mind made up. Hell, it's such a poor, vague deal, with so many get out clauses which means it can be torn up at a whim that even those pro-EU are embarrassed by it.

You can trivalise it with your 12 people statement - but you'd be missing the point by a large margin.

That's right, you were waiting for the deal before making your mind up.

The Mail say 92% want out according to their headline this morning - sounds like it's all over.

If the Scottish referendum is any guide to the future then tightening polls will lead to a sweeter deal. There's no real campaigning yet either so the Nigel Farage vs the rest of the establishment show hasn't started yet.

I'm still up for June. In or out let's not waste any more time and energy on it.

kabayiri

I think the rise of UKIP in places like the NE of the UK caught the mainstream parties a little by surprise in the GE.

The survey yesterday by the BBC shows that people believe the impact of things like immigration and refugees is not being shared evenly.

This referendum could easily see a conflation of other issues, particularly on the Leave side. Even if Remain prevail I have a feeling that things will drag on for a long time. The Scottish indy ref is testament to how that can happen.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

That's right, you were waiting for the deal before making your mind up.

That's what I said some time ago.

The deal is here, I've made my mind up. We all know I was likely to vote out, but a deal could have swayed it. It didn't. Infact is swayed some in voters to vote out.

Make what you like of it.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

That's what I said some time ago.

The deal is here, I've made my mind up. We all know I was always going [STRIKE]likely[/STRIKE] to vote out, and a deal [STRIKE]could[/STRIKE] couldn't have swayed it. It didn't. Infact is swayed some in voters to vote out.

Make what you like of it.

..and what I said some time ago was exactly how this deal would go down. David Cameron would arrive back from abroad declaring victory and the usual suspects would dismiss it.

Nothing new to see here including the fact that, despite your keen interest in the deal, you've not read it preferring to have your confirmations massaged as soon as possible.

As far as I can see reading Donald Tusk's letter this is only the starting point for negotiations rather than the end. Doesn't matter to me but the 12 impartial people in the UK who haven't made up their minds probably need to hold their horses before deciding.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

..and what I said some time ago was exactly how this deal would go down. David Cameron would arrive back from abroad declaring victory and the usual suspects would dismiss it.

You don't seem to be willing to admit that its not just (what you refer to as) the "usual suspects" dismissing it.

It's many who are pro-EU also.

You keep trying to trivialise it as "12 people" and "nothing new to see". It's clearly one of the biggest issues we've had in the UK for some time. If you are not interested in it all as you keep saying, why keep nit picking other peoples posts?