If we vote for Brexit what happens

Samsonite1

danothy wrote: »

Yes, it is, if you are doing it on the basis of where they were born, rather than their individual ability and willingness.



And if you seek to discriminate against people because of where they were born, then you are a racist.



No, that would be protectionist.

I think the word "racist" may be overused in this context. "Bigoted" might be a more appropriate term as it is not specifically about race. Just a thought.

danothy

Samsonite1 wrote: »

I think the word "racist" may be overused in this context. "Bigoted" might be a more appropriate term as it is not specifically about race. Just a thought.

It's a classic racist trope to deny something is racist because it is applied outside some narrowed definition of the word "race" from its original meaning. Even if you were to exclude nationality from the definition, the act is then just shouldered over to ethnic discrimination, which is cognitively and literally indistinct from racial discrimination.

It's important to not let racist people claim what they say and do isn't racist on some weak semantic ground.

ElsieMonkey

Getting bored of hearing about Brexit now. Time for people to start using some common sense.

I live in Greater London and have been watching the market for 18 months. Prices have been flatlining and/or small increases of 5-10k since the end of last year. Lots of property came onto the market the beginning of this year and exchanged to beat the increase in tax for BTL Landlords in April. Since April the market appears to have slowed down - less properties for sale, less BTL Landlords shopping for properties, prices again still pretty still. It's not all about Brexit. This stuff was happening before Brexit and is just continuing.

It's not all bad, mortgage interest rates are at historic low making them attractive for FTB and there's more demand than supply. Demand may have dropped off a bit due to less BTL Landlords around and now some FTBs panicking about Brexit due to the media building hysteria, but demand won't fall as low as or below supply levels. We've had a housing shortage for donkeys years and this will only increase now due to developers/construction being more cautious because of Brexit.

Yes the luxury million £ plus developments in central london may take a hit because their market relied heavily on foreign investors (but then again the exchange rate now makes those properties seem more affordable, so who knows)! But that's not the majority of us, is it.

If you're buying a home with a decent deposit and plan to live in it long term, nothing to panic about. If you're planning to buy to do up and make a quick sale/profit THEN you may want to hold off. No matter when you buy you may experience value rises and falls across the course of your ownership of that property. The advice now is the same as it's always been, be sensible with what mortgage you take out and think about how you would afford to repay should rates change etc. and the bigger the deposit the better, to protect yourself from risk of negative equity. End of.

I can only speak really of the market I know in Greater London. But I bought my property for 225k in 2013. It's now worth in the region of £420k because properties recently, the same as mine, have sold this amount. Only today one went under offer after being advertised for 2 months at £425k. I seriously don't think my property is going to suddenly plunge back down to 225k!!! And even if it's value dropped a bit, so what, every other house across the country will be subject to this too, so if I'm buying on I'm not out of pocket.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/house-prices/61987/house-prices-bank-of-england-urges-prudence-not-panic

Thrugelmir

ElsieMonkey wrote: »

I seriously don't think my property is going to suddenly plunge back down to 225k!!!

Any rational explanation as to why it rose £200k in value 3 years though. You wouldn't be able to afford the property yourself now. Nor can many others.

baza52

danothy wrote: »

It's a classic racist trope to deny something is racist because it is applied outside some narrowed definition of the word "race" from its original meaning. Even if you were to exclude nationality from the definition, the act is then just shouldered over to ethnic discrimination, which is cognitively and literally indistinct from racial discrimination.

It's important to not let racist people claim what they say and do isn't racist on some weak semantic ground.

So if the European union say free movement for EU citizens but restrict the rest of the worlds free movement is that racist?
Is that not also discrimination?

How about the England football team only allowing English players? Racist?

This is Racist by your definition so why is it allowed?
http://creativeaccess.org.uk/opportunities

All roles advertised through Creative Access are only open to UK nationals from a black, Asian or non-white ethnic minority.

gfplux

baza52 wrote: »

No such thing as British jobs?
How about defining a British job as a Job in Britain.
We can have the likes of the BBC advertising positions that are not open to "white British" but that's not racist is it.
Putting British people at the front of the queue for a job in Britain is not racist.
Lets not forget that British people now come from backgrounds across the world.
I define a British person as someone born in Britain not by their colour or religion.

If I were to encourage British people to buy British goods over imported ones I'm guessing in your eyes that would also be racist.

Hello Baza52,
When you say put British people at the front of the que for a job.
Do you mean that a British person gets the job even if they are less experienced or qualified than someone you define as foreign.

EdGasket

baza52 wrote: »

This is Racist by your definition so why is it allowed?
http://creativeaccess.org.uk/opportunities

All roles advertised through Creative Access are only open to UK nationals from a black, Asian or non-white ethnic minority.

That shouldn't be allowed; maybe no-one has complained about it. That site racially descriminates against white people. Surely that is illegal?

CLAPTON

gfplux wrote: »

Hello Baza52,
When you say put British people at the front of the que for a job.
Do you mean that a British person gets the job even if they are less experienced or qualified than someone you define as foreign.

if one wanted to use that definition, then the only way to be non racist, would to be allow unrestricted free movement of people as it fairly likely that out of 8,000,million in the world, there is likely to be some-one better that the average UK person.

brit1234

ElsieMonkey wrote: »

I can only speak really of the market I know in Greater London. But I bought my property for 225k in 2013. It's now worth in the region of £420k because properties recently, the same as mine, have sold this amount. Only today one went under offer after being advertised for 2 months at £425k. I seriously don't think my property is going to suddenly plunge back down to 225k!!! :think: And even if it's value dropped a bit, so what, every other house across the country will be subject to this too, so if I'm buying on I'm not out of pocket.

So how have you added £195k value to your property?

1. Have you added an extension which doubles the size.
2. Have you completely gutted a low value interior and finished it it marble with an added swimming pool?

If you haven't done anything and its gone up with funny money (QE, low interest rates, funding for lending) and mass frenzy panicking speculation to cause a housing bubble which can pop at any time like 2007-8.


Many people think they are now rich because their houses have gone up so much but in reality you need to sell to capitalise these gains. If you haven't done anything tangible to the property then these gains can simply evaporate in an economic downturn.

Some people say that won't happen due to supply and demand. All I need to say is did the population suddenly drop in 2008 when they fell? Did the population of Japan suddenly drop when they had their economic meltdown?

No, the bubble was caused by cheap credit, irresponsible lending and fraud.

danothy

baza52 wrote: »

So if the European union say free movement for EU citizens but restrict the rest of the worlds free movement is that racist?

CLAPTON wrote: »

the only way to be non racist, would to be allow unrestricted free movement of people

Well done both of you, you've both managed to implicitly come to the conclusion that giving people different fundamental rights based on their race or ethnicity - i.e. giving or restricting someone the right to live and work somewhere based on nothing more than where they were born - is racist. I will tell you for free that racism is wrong and you should be ashamed of advocating it in this form if you do so.