If we vote for Brexit what happens

A_Pict_In_A_Past_Life

kabayiri wrote: »

I think gfplux means "United" as in "Man United"

Ie : cost a fortune to assemble and run, and yet is still second rate.

Why do so many honestly believe the EU is united?
Apart from us, 27 disparate countries with a range of differing beliefs, cultures and languages spread across a continent and they think they will ever find real unity?
Like I said, delusional.

We can't manage it after centuries in the confines of a small island - look at some of my fellow Scots in the "Fish" thread for example, and don't for one mad moment think the Welsh are any different.
That's without say Geordies and Mackems, the north/south divide etc. etc.

Real unity just does not seem to be possible.
Some cooperation or mutual understanding yes, but unity no.
As a species we are tribal.

always_sunny

cogito wrote: »

In that case, there seems to be no reason to involve the ECJ. We appear to be in agreement.

The [main] reason why the ECJ is involved it's because there're 5M people impacted and if the British nationals in the EU will be under ECJ, it's fair that the EU nationals here are under the same.

I said that before, I don't know why British folks seem so aggressively against the ECJ when it has little impact on their daily life and it's only used as an escalation point.

Thrugelmir

always_sunny wrote: »

I said that before, I don't know why British folks seem so aggressively against the ECJ when it has little impact on their daily life and it's only used as an escalation point.

The UK has lost more than 75% of the cases brought before the ECJ. The view is that the UK has very little influence within the institutions. Another case of unelected /unaccountable people controlling our lives.

always_sunny

Conrad wrote: »

Yes and equally so Remainers love to tell us we made pretty much all our own laws and enjoyed full democracy (O'Brien's daily narrative) in which case we wont miss Brussels then and the supposed giant task of realigning our laws must be myth.

That's fairly accurate for domestic legislations, a snapshot of EU laws just being 'converted' into UK law and then [I can assume] reformed as needed so bendy bananas can be bought.

What doesn't get 'converted' are legislations about market access, etc.

always_sunny

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The UK has lost more than 75% of the cases brought before the ECJ. The view is that the UK has very little influence within the institutions. Another case of unelected /unaccountable people controlling our lives.

75% of how many cases? And why did the UK lose the appeal? What cases were brought forward? Was the UK singled out? What about cases to other member states?

LHW99

Strange that when the old were young they voted for the Common Market.

Not all of us, some of us saw no reason to join the EEC (as it was) when we were already part of EFTA, and as the EEC morphed into the EU were even less impressed.

if the British nationals in the EU will be under ECJ, it's fair that the EU nationals here are under the same

Well how about the UK nationals in the EU being under the UK Courts?
And if that really is too difficult, then it seems that the best option all round would be for all residents of the UK to be under UK law and all residents of the EU under the ECJ.

Enterprise_1701C

always_sunny wrote: »

It means EU nationals who moved to the UK under the FoM should be able to enjoy the same rights after withdrawal of the UK from the EU. (This would not mean future EU nationals would also enjoy it).

The same protection of rights should be applied to British nationals residing in the EU. (again not applicable to future ones).

So yes, seriously. Why should my [current] rights in the UK as an EU national be degraded? Currently I am under ECJ and I would expect the same to continue.

Will this create 2 tiers nationals? Sure, pre-Brexit and post-Brexit and that's fine.
What would you suggest the UK should do with the EU nationals currently residing in the UK?
Should we be treated as if we are on a sponsored visa?

Just because those in the EU are under the ECJ, that does not mean that the ECJ have the right to dictate to us how to run things. It is a step too far.

If you go to a new country you accept that you will be under the rules of that country. If I went to the US for a while I would have to abide by their rules. They do not turn around and say that any americans in this country should be subject to the rules and advantages of the US. That would be ridiculous, it would mean that we would have to execute some of their criminals. If you take it to the extreme, it would mean pay levels would be at the same level as in their country. Mind you, that could be a massive advantage with all the Polish and Romanians we have here.

If you want to continue being treated as if you live in the eu then maybe you should take the obvious solution.

I have always felt that if you live in a foreign land you should be subject to the rules of that land. If you go to somewhere like Saudi and drink in the street you expect to be punished for it, you do not turn around and say "I am British so the rules don't apply to me because it is legal in the UK".

Pre-Brexit eu residents of the UK have the right to live here, that has been agreed, at least here, the eu still have to agree. Post-Brexit eu residents of the UK know that we have voted to leave, they come here knowing the rules have changed and have to accept this.

One thing I would say though is that our eu jail population should immediately be repatriated. I will quite happily leave them subject to the ecj.

We voted to leave the eu to get out and stop them trying to run our country. You chose to come to the UK, and we have always been the UK, we are not just some part of the eu, we are getting out in time to avoid being that.

always_sunny

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

If you want to continue being treated as if you live in the eu then maybe you should take the obvious solution.

Highly likely that is what many are considering and will do based on their options.
Bear in mind not everyone can do it overnight, some may have commitments and need to untangle themselves from the UK first.

Conrad

always_sunny wrote: »

Highly likely that is what many are considering and will do based on their options.
Bear in mind not everyone can do it overnight, some may have commitments and need to untangle themselves from the UK first.

One wonders why so many Europeans are still comming to try a life in the UK, given how much better they would be remaining under wonderous Brusells management?

All this fuss over a slight change in the way we trade with Europe, one day Remainers will realise how badly thier judgement was clouded.

Conrad

always_sunny wrote: »

The [main] reason why the ECJ is involved it's because there're 5M people impacted and if the British nationals in the EU will be under ECJ, it's fair that the EU nationals here are under the same.

I said that before, I don't know why British folks seem so aggressively against the ECJ when it has little impact on their daily life and it's only used as an escalation point.

So Russian law should apply to former East Germany and the Czech Republic?