If we vote for Brexit what happens

Arklight

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Now the campaign to rejoin begins.

And we've seen the playbook for how to win such a campaign...

There will be no coming together - no re-uniting of society.

The leave campaigners spent the last few decades being as disruptive about Europe as they could, while their allies in the gutter press stirred up anti-EU sentiment based largely on divisiveness, exaggerations and often even outright fake news.

For pro-Europeans it is now their duty to actively resist and disrupt the process to take Britain out of the EU via any legal, political or civic protest means possible - and whilst sadly we will indeed be leaving for now - then the campaign to rejoin will begin.

We will ensure that just as much pressure is brought to bear against the leavers as was against the EU for the last few decades, and continue to speak out and hold the government and leave campaign to account.

It is naive and frankly arrogant for Theresa May to expect that the people who wished to remain as EU citizens should now just roll over and accept the loss of their rights, their EU citizenship, and their freedoms.

Britain is divided and will only become more so.

And if breaking up the UK via democratic action in some or all of Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar protects the democratically expressed choice of the people in those nations to stay in the EU then so be it.

Theresa May is likely to be remembered as nothing but a total failure - the Unionist PM who lost the Union....

My impression of May is that she is desperately trying to keep the plates spinning long enough to win the next election, and she is well aware they are going to crash down after that, and her main plan is to batten down the hatches and weather the storm.


Her current focus appears to be much more on crushing any opposition in her own party so that she can get her 5 years in as what will probably be a very unpopular Prime Minister, both inside her party and out. I think she's seen Jeremy Corbyn see off numerous leadership challenges and rebellions even though it's left him with a depleted shadow cabinet, in pursuit of his vision of what he wants his party to be and has decided that she will have some of that too.


She is making it clear to her colleagues that she doesn't care how unpopular she is and will move them to the backbenches the moment they look like being a threat, irrespective of how important they may think they are.


Brexit will end up pleasing no-one. Regardless of what Daily Mail readers want to believe, both she and Paul Dacre (who has buried the manifesto release on the Mail's website from yesterday due to the blizzard of complaints in the comments) are well aware that the UK is 72 years too late to be an independent country.


Brexit will not be hard enough to please the Kippers (her immigration targets are only going to be met if they shut Heathrow 5 days a week) , and it will be way too hard for everyone else. Meanwhile there isn't even the glimmer of a light at the end of tunnel in her manifesto for the UK's economic future.


I don't think this will lead to a campaign to rejoin though. I think once she, Paul Dacre and Farage are done over the next two years the relationship will be so poisoned with the EU that even the most committed Europhile will accept Britain has blown it for a generation at least.


There will then be a pragmatic drifting back in, with us vastly disadvantaged compared to what we had before.

setmefree2

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Now the campaign to rejoin begins.

And we've seen the playbook for how to win such a campaign...

There will be no coming together - no re-uniting of society.

The leave campaigners spent the last few decades being as disruptive about Europe as they could, while their allies in the gutter press stirred up anti-EU sentiment based largely on divisiveness, exaggerations and often even outright fake news.

For pro-Europeans it is now their duty to actively resist and disrupt the process to take Britain out of the EU via any legal, political or civic protest means possible - and whilst sadly we will indeed be leaving for now - then the campaign to rejoin will begin.

We will ensure that just as much pressure is brought to bear against the leavers as was against the EU for the last few decades, and continue to speak out and hold the government and leave campaign to account.

It is naive and frankly arrogant for Theresa May to expect that the people who wished to remain as EU citizens should now just roll over and accept the loss of their rights, their EU citizenship, and their freedoms.

Britain is divided and will only become more so.

And if breaking up the UK via democratic action in some or all of Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar protects the democratically expressed choice of the people in those nations to stay in the EU then so be it.

Theresa May is likely to be remembered as nothing but a total failure - the Unionist PM who lost the Union....

Good Luck with that.

There are only 22% of you Remoaners left.

The rest of us have become Re-Leavers.

Majority now back Brexit as ‘Re-Leavers’ switch support - poll

https://www.rt.com/uk/388544-brexit-theresa-may-poll/

A_Medium_Size_Jock

kabayiri wrote: »

How can you simultaneously argue for a unionist rejoin campaign whilst at the same time support a bunch of separatists up in Scotland?

It seems somewhat contradictory...

Methinks the word you were seeking is hypocritical.
Tempered with more than a little delusion for good measure....


You've seen all this guff about supposedly losing tech-based jobs here in the UK because of Brexit?
Well news today of more tech expansion & new jobs.
Not as major as Amazon etc. but still:

Invest Northern Ireland today announced the creation of 120 jobs with the opening of its European Research and Development Labs in Belfast and the Centre for Secure Information Technologies (CSIT).

Northern Ireland is the number one location in the world for cyber security inward investment (FT fDI Markets 2013-16) and the number one global destination for US cyber security companies with an eye for international expansion.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/business/120-new-jobs-announced-for-cyber-security-sector-1-7967532

Reading technology firm Ultima has announced £18 million worth of investment to create a new headquarters in Reading. The modernisation of its offices will create 50 new jobs and double its current intake of apprenticeships to 40.

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/business/reading-firm-create-50-new-13008623

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Arklight wrote: »

My impression ...........

I cut the rest because let's be honest, it's drivel.
Fortunately it would appear that the vast majority of the UK electorate disagree with you.
See SetMeFree's post above & read the link if you disagree.
Or wait for the results of the GE.
Whichever.

I hear Albania is nice this time of year.

TrickyTree83

Arklight wrote: »

My impression of May is that she is desperately trying to keep the plates spinning long enough to win the next election, and she is well aware they are going to crash down after that, and her main plan is to batten down the hatches and weather the storm.


Her current focus appears to be much more on crushing any opposition in her own party so that she can get her 5 years in as what will probably be a very unpopular Prime Minister, both inside her party and out. I think she's seen Jeremy Corbyn see off numerous leadership challenges and rebellions even though it's left him with a depleted shadow cabinet, in pursuit of his vision of what he wants his party to be and has decided that she will have some of that too.


She is making it clear to her colleagues that she doesn't care how unpopular she is and will move them to the backbenches the moment they look like being a threat, irrespective of how important they may think they are.


Brexit will end up pleasing no-one. Regardless of what Daily Mail readers want to believe, both she and Paul Dacre (who has buried the manifesto release on the Mail's website from yesterday due to the blizzard of complaints in the comments) are well aware that the UK is 72 years too late to be an independent country.


Brexit will not be hard enough to please the Kippers (her immigration targets are only going to be met if they shut Heathrow 5 days a week) , and it will be way too hard for everyone else. Meanwhile there isn't even the glimmer of a light at the end of tunnel in her manifesto for the UK's economic future.


I don't think this will lead to a campaign to rejoin though. I think once she, Paul Dacre and Farage are done over the next two years the relationship will be so poisoned with the EU that even the most committed Europhile will accept Britain has blown it for a generation at least.


There will then be a pragmatic drifting back in, with us vastly disadvantaged compared to what we had before.

You are Ricardo Montalban and I claim my £5.

setmefree2

Hope for a cleaner Brexit after ECJ ruling

In a ruling which is likely to have positive implications for a possible Brexit deal, the European Court of Justice (ECJ) on the 16 May 2017 opened up the ability of the EU institutions to negotiate free trade agreements without the approval of individual Member State legislatures.
The case, which involved a Singapore-EU trade deal agreed some years ago but not yet ratified, is being seen as a blueprint for a way to get a future Brexit deal through the EU without the threat of a rogue national Parliament blocking the deal.
The European Court ruling involved a power struggle between the EU Institutions of the EU Commission and EU Parliament on the one hand and the Member States (as represented in the Council of the European Union) on the other. The Council was arguing that the EU could not conclude the Singapore agreement without reference to the Member States because certain parts of the agreement fall within a competence shared between the EU and the Member States or within the exclusive competence of the Member States.

On 16 May the European Court ruled that the trade agreement would need the support of both the individual Member States and the EU itself because it contained provisions relating to areas where competence was shared with Member States, those areas being non-direct foreign investment and the regime governing dispute settlement between investors and States.


The above ruling sets out a demarcation of the rights and competences of the EU and those of the Member States. As a corollary therefore, the ruling is seen as a precedent which would allow the EU alone to negotiate and approve a foreign trade deals as long as it does not include Member State competencies.


The whole Brexit process is haunted by the way an aggrieved national Parliament could hold the trading block and the UK to ransom over a future trade deal. This happened recently with the EU’s agreement with Canada when a Belgium regional Parliament did precisely that. Therefore this development is being seized upon as a possible way to get a more limited Brexit agreement through the EU, avoiding such a situation.


As well as trade/tariff issues, the other areas of EU only competence mentioned by the Court included substantial areas such as provisions concerning IP, provisions targeting anti-competitive activity and access to the EU market for goods and services.


However others argue that a Brexit agreement done in stages (to stop it being held hostage by aggrieved national parliaments) is not likely to find favour. An agreement to address the issues thrown up by many decades of integration will probably require a wide ranging agreement which will inevitably involve the support and votes of the Member States.


Robert Bell, Head of EU & Competition Law at international law firm Bryan Cave, commented: “depending upon how the Brexit agreement is eventually structured this Court ruling could have a beneficial effect on the approval of a future trade deal between the UK and the EU”.


Nevertheless a note of caution serves to dampen down such optimism: given that the UK has been a member of the Community for nearly 45 years the issues which need to be addressed in any future EU /UK deal place it in a league of their own.

http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/hope-for-a-cleaner-brexit-after-ecj-90740/

Thrugelmir

Arklight wrote: »

Her current focus appears to be much more on crushing any opposition in her own party so that she can get her 5 years in as what will probably be a very unpopular Prime Minister, both inside her party and out.

In politics you cannot crush the opposition. After years of Blair reform. Corbyn and his ilk survived any attempt to reform the party and the influence of the Unions. We are heading back to a past era as far as the Labour party is concerned. Who ever wins the Middle ground over is key. Not the extremes at either end of the spectrum.

setmefree2

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Or wait for the results of the GE.
Whichever.

I like the changes to payments for social care but waiting for a poll to see how this plays out with the elderly......not sure it's in the bag yet...

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

IF we were to rejoin they would take us for every penny, and all new accession treaties include an agreement to join the euro.

Well - yes.

We did try to warn you that the deal Britain had was exceptionally good already. I have no doubt that our future deal will be worse.

Do you really want to destroy the UK economy that much, and I know you will say we are destroying it by leaving, that has yet to come to pass, and if the economy suffers it will be short term pain for long term gain. If we were to rejoin we would lose everything.

You really suffer from delusions on this topic - there is no upside to the UK from leaving - not a single possible outcome where we are better off out than in.

Britain will be severely diminished economically outside the EU - it may take years - it may take decades - but it will happen.

And when, not if, we rejoin - this failed Brexit experiment will go down as the biggest lapse in judgement in Britain's history.

And that is what they want, they want a federal superstate, and that is what we would have to agree to if we were to rejoin.

Yes well, you should have thought about that before taking us and our veto out of the EU then.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

setmefree2 wrote: »

I like the changes to payments for social care but waiting for a poll to see how this plays out with the elderly......not sure it's in the bag yet...

Oh sure, it ain't over until the fat lady sings as they say.

As suggested by others though, it may be tactical to avoid a complete whitewash and so the appearance at least of a domineering stance.