If we vote for Brexit what happens

kabayiri

Re: agriculture there is an opportunity here.

We could source more produce from Africa in a mutually beneficial direct trade relationship.

It just needs vision and commitment from both sides.

The population of Africa is set to double in the coming decades, and unless we work out some better direct trade arrangements, we are going to have millions of Africans trying to cross the Med at treacherous times.

Ballard

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Opposing views of the EU indeed.
Because this "free trade and cooperation" are not and never have been free as you at least acknowledge with your "expense .... ".
They have cost us dearly, to the tune of many billions of pounds each and every year.
There is certainly nothing "free" about that.

In fact it is my belief (and that of others much better-placed than I and with more direct experience) that the EU have actually restricted trade with the rest of the world in favour of their own brand of nepotism, usually at the expense of other nations.

I think that that view has been mentioned on or two hundred times already in this thread so I have no idea why you felt it necessary to bring it up again. I acknowledge other views and have moved on.

Ballard

kabayiri wrote: »

Re: agriculture there is an opportunity here.

We could source more produce from Africa in a mutually beneficial direct trade relationship.

It just needs vision and commitment from both sides.

The population of Africa is set to double in the coming decades, and unless we work out some better direct trade arrangements, we are going to have millions of Africans trying to cross the Med at treacherous times.

In theory it would be an excellent idea but Africa obviously has problems, principally that much of the northern half of Africa is either at war/conflict. Add to that famine currently occurring in the horn and the lack of opportunity in the arid Sahara and it would be a big ask for anyone to make a financial commitment.

One area which should be exploited in that region is solar power as that's generally plentiful but that isn't immune to war and getting that power to the UK would prove troublesome.

Filo25

Conrad wrote: »

Holland shares our climate and has a thriving greenhouse growing industry. You clearly do not watch Countryfile which shows huge new underground farms powered by LED lights accross Britain.


We could remove all or much of the energy tax for certain sectors should the need arise, and Spain knows this.

You still believe us to hold no power at the deal making table, that's what makes you a confirmed Remainer.


Did you miss all the posts where we said Banks might open small offices inside the EU to get around any access issues?
As ever you still discount the job creation by way of new a Brexit opportunities. Keep on filtering.

Which the EU immediately countered by saying they would want banks to have appropriate levels of staffing in the EU to support the levels of business that the bank was conducting there, they would not be willing to go along with token satellite banks in the EU with the real work being done in London.

I do agree with you that a lot of the issues which come out of our EU departure will have workarounds, the issue as always will be how costly/efficient those workarounds will be.

It isn't even something we can start work on (beyond initial planning) in many cases until we have a much clearer idea of what our exit from the EU looks like.

kabayiri

I think the banking industry will always act in pure self interest.

Maybe bankers don't remember they nearly brought the world economy crashing down less than a decade ago, and had to be bailed out by most of the major Western economies. Consumers can judge those banks who choose to bail on the UK, and move to those who support UK.

Outside a few banking centres, you will not find a lot of compassion and support for the banking industry. The people of Sunderland don't care what happens within the City.

I do think some of these deep seated issues got conflated with the EU. Juncker and Tusk could point to some of the Brexit vote as being a protest vote, and they would have a point....but that's politics for you.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Ballard wrote: »

I think that that view has been mentioned on or two hundred times already in this thread so I have no idea why you felt it necessary to bring it up again. I acknowledge other views and have moved on.

In direct response to your post "I happen to think ....", that is why.
If you are indeed "moving on" why the continuation?

Regarding Africa there is indeed great potential for mutually beneficial trade as another poster suggests.
Only small parts have been tapped-into in recent years although sadly the evidence is that much of this - thanks at least partially to EU policies - is having a negative impact upon these nations.
Have a read of:
http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/how-the-eu-starves-africa/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/28/the-european-union-is-an-ongoing-disaster-for-africa

https://www.howwemadeitinafrica.com/paying-price-south-africa-ban-eus-chicken-meat-dumping/

The continent does indeed have some major problems.
Perhaps instead of persistently furthering the problems on the continent by the use of such biased trade, more effort could instead be put into new ways of genuinely helping?
Because by helping African nations we would indeed undoubtedly also be helping ourselves as kabayiri suggests, and not only by giving the inhabitants good reason to stay in their own countries.

Your example of solar power is one example but there must surely be many more possibilities?
And why for example must this power come to the UK; are there really no nations closer that could benefit?
Again, yes I acknowledge that there are major problems in the region.
Sadly though it really does look very much like real interest in finding solutions to these problems is not a priority for those outside the continent.

Ballard

kabayiri wrote: »

I think the banking industry will always act in pure self interest.

Maybe bankers don't remember they nearly brought the world economy crashing down less than a decade ago, and had to be bailed out by most of the major Western economies. Consumers can judge those banks who choose to bail on the UK, and move to those who support UK.

Outside a few banking centres, you will not find a lot of compassion and support for the banking industry. The people of Sunderland don't care what happens within the City.

I do think some of these deep seated issues got conflated with the EU. Juncker and Tusk could point to some of the Brexit vote as being a protest vote, and they would have a point....but that's politics for you.

I am a banker and entirely get your point. Furthermore I think that you're spot on with the banking crisis being a major factor in us leaving the EU.

People from Sunderland don't care about The City and I don't blame them. If I didn't work there I probably wouldn't care about it either but the fact remains that it's a massive industry for the UK and without it we would all be much poorer.

It could easily be argued that the bail out has cost us all a huge amount but that's in the past and we have to move on and think of the future. What are our options without these international banks?

Arklight

Conrad wrote: »

Holland shares our climate and has a thriving greenhouse growing industry. You clearly do not watch Countryfile which shows huge new underground farms powered by LED lights accross Britain.


We could remove all or much of the energy tax for certain sectors should the need arise, and Spain knows this.

You still believe us to hold no power at the deal making table, that's what makes you a confirmed Remainer.


Did you miss all the posts where we said Banks might open small offices inside the EU to get around any access issues?
As ever you still discount the job creation by way of new a Brexit opportunities. Keep on filtering.

Doesn't watch Countryfile. Doesn't read the Daily Express, doesn't want Brexit and has probably never been on a caravanning holiday in his life. I bet he lives in London and has a university education too.

His views are therefore totally irrelevant.

Ballard

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

In direct response to your post "I happen to think ....", that is why.
If you are indeed "moving on" why the continuation?

Regarding Africa there is indeed great potential for mutually beneficial trade as another poster suggests.
Only small parts have been tapped-into in recent years although sadly the evidence is that much of this - thanks at least partially to EU policies - is having a negative impact upon these nations.
Have a read of:
http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/how-the-eu-starves-africa/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/28/the-european-union-is-an-ongoing-disaster-for-africa

https://www.howwemadeitinafrica.com/paying-price-south-africa-ban-eus-chicken-meat-dumping/

The continent does indeed have some major problems.
Perhaps instead of persistently furthering the problems on the continent by the use of such biased trade, more effort could instead be put into new ways of genuinely helping?
Because by helping African nations we would indeed undoubtedly also be helping ourselves as kabayiri suggests, and not only by giving the inhabitants good reason to stay in their own countries.

Your example of solar power is one example but there must surely be many more possibilities?
And why for example must this power come to the UK; are there really no nations closer that could benefit?
Again, yes I acknowledge that there are major problems in the region.
Sadly though it really does look very much like real interest in finding solutions to these problems is not a priority for those outside the continent.

In my post I stated that I knew that your view and mine differed. In my view there was no reason for you to then restate your view but its fine. I REALLY know it now so let's both move on.

The obvious answer with regards to solar power would be for it to go to Spain but I wouldn't have thought that that was entirely relevant on this thread. This article made interesting reading last year http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20161129-the-colossal-african-solar-farm-that-could-power-europe but the potential must be even greater.

As someone who is massively concerned about our environment and also someone who has dabbled in African travels I am very much in favour of projects such as these.

Arklight

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Why should you care when you have already Brexited to Luxembourg and vowed never to return?
Are you just trolling from an "I'm all right Jack" position?
Is it your idea of an "April Fool"?

Regardless, here is some of the latest data from YouGov:
All freely available on YouGov site https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/03/29/attitudes-brexit-everything-we-know-so-far/

So from those we can clearly see that so far the majority still agree to respect the democratic wishes of the voting majority.

People have been campaigning for many years to remove the threat of nuclear weapons (i.e.CND).
People have been campaigning for years to save the Arctic (i.e. Greenpeace).
People campaign for a huge variety of things in fact.

Maybe it is time you realised that just because you campaign does NOT mean that you will get what you want.
Because a voting or at least participating majority of people must also want the same before that can happen.
And as with all these examples as well as with Brexit, that has not happened.

That's a jolly good source of data there, that you are completely misinterpreting.

Brexit hasn't happened yet - the polling data shows that people's opinions are about the same as when they voted. With a slim majority for Leave.

People who voted Remain for the most part accept the result.

That does not mean they want the lunacy of a hard Brexit or will accept that.

Perhaps some more interesting, or maybe worrying polling for the "WTO rules Brexicists"



Yes that's right. Well 40% of people are going to get a very rude awakening.