If we vote for Brexit what happens

kabayiri

always_sunny wrote: »

...
Culturally people in the UK are very different from continental Europe, Brexit will be good for all parties.

We have longer cultural links with commonwealth countries than we do with somewhere like Romania.

We could replace workers with people from the subcontinent, and nobody would notice any difference.

We have been bringing Indian and Pakistani and Jamaicans etc etc here for decades.

At some point a machine will be just as useful, and we will turn to that rather than a migrant.

If this does happen, I hope I am the one in position to make more money from the change in focus.

setmefree2

always_sunny wrote: »

A wealthy country like the UK decided to join the EU because at that time it was a poor country and the first application was vetoed by France.

Rubbish.

In 1973 (when we joined the common market) we were the 5th largest economy in the world.

United States1,369,800,050,0002
Japan412,489,646,0003
Germany385,511,883,0004
France262,579,405,0005
United Kingdom181,332,673,000

In 1993 when Major signed Maastricht

United States6,604,300,200,0002
Japan4,324,015,210,0003
Germany2,004,459,980,0004
France1,291,055,270,0005
Italy1,020,989,410,0006
United Kingdom963,791,220,000

http://en.classora.com/reports/t24369/ranking-of-the-worlds-richest-countries-by-gdp?edition=1973

Conrad

CKhalvashi wrote: »

I appreciate that, but the UK economy is shrinking when inflation is taken into account.

Anyone that says otherwise is lying to you.

So thousands of people per week will stop choosing the UK then, and go to the wondrous milk n honey EU land of golden streets?


As you say it's terrible here for people with disabilities, I mean we only almost won the Paralympics and lots of disabled people playing a full role in British public life and as TV presenters / celebs, where your rent is paid and benefits abound (one obese 'disabled' person can easily attract a million quids worth of state assistance / NHS ect) and disabled people enjoy foreign holidays and Mobility cars (often then used entirely by a family member), have health services on tap, pretty good wheelchair access, full rights, huge amount of charitable endeavour, yes an awful place for the disabled, a dreadful nasty little country.


A new migrant came in here with a son with not very severe autism. They get £1000 pm for this alone in addition to all the other benefits, HB, free NHS etc. What a nasty place.


Until recently it took far longer to be granted citizenship in Germany, but the UK is the nasty place.


In France I've always found the French far more racist and intolerant. In places like Poland and Hungary racism and intolerance are the norm.

Conrad

More evidence the UK is nasty and hatefull compared with EU land;

There are now walls and fences in place or going up between;


Hungary and Serbia


Hungary and Croatia


Greece and Macedonia


Greece and Turkey


Slovenia and Croatia


Spain and Morocco in Ceuta and Melilla


Austria and Germany


Hungary and Slovakia.

StevieJ

setmefree2 wrote: »

Rubbish.

In 1973 (when we joined the common market) we were the 5th largest economy in the world.

In 1993 when Major signed Maastricht


http://en.classora.com/reports/t24369/ranking-of-the-worlds-richest-countries-by-gdp?edition=1973

So where are we now?

StevieJ

Conrad wrote: »

More evidence the UK is nasty and hatefull compared with EU land;

There are now walls and fences in place or going up between;


Hungary and Serbia


Hungary and Croatia


Greece and Macedonia


Greece and Turkey


Slovenia and Croatia


Spain and Morocco in Ceuta and Melilla


Austria and Germany


Hungary and Slovakia.

We have our own wall made out of water

CKhalvashi

Conrad wrote: »

So thousands of people per week will stop choosing the UK then, and go to the wondrous milk n honey EU land of golden streets?

I never said people won't choose the UK.

As you say it's terrible here for people with disabilities, I mean we only almost won the Paralympics and lots of disabled people playing a full role in British public life and as TV presenters / celebs, where your rent is paid and benefits abound (one obese 'disabled' person can easily attract a million quids worth of state assistance / NHS ect) and disabled people enjoy foreign holidays and Mobility cars (often then used entirely by a family member), have health services on tap, pretty good wheelchair access, full rights, huge amount of charitable endeavour, yes an awful place for the disabled, a dreadful nasty little country.

A new migrant came in here with a son with not very severe autism. They get £1000 pm for this alone in addition to all the other benefits, HB, free NHS etc. What a nasty place.

How is there an automatic entitlement of £1000 a month for mild autism? If the forms are filled in correctly then this would IME be an anomoly, if they are filled in to deliberately mislead, then I in no way condone benefit fraud.

I've seen British people having their benefits (ESA/DLA to PIP) cut when they're obviously not able to work, and in many cases the PIP system isn't fit for purpose (although then again, neither was the DLA system). Fact is though, it worked better before it was replaced than it does now. Universal credit is another system there are major issues with from what I've seen, however for those without difficult circumstances/disabilities it probably will work better.

My point was aimed more at those that aren't capable of working rather than those who are. I have a friend who is a PE teacher, who uses a wheelchair. He's definitely not in my list of people in that situation. Does every disabled person enjoy foreign holidays and Motability cars? I know many who don't.

setmefree2

The government has cleared time for MPs to consider amendments made by the House of Lords to its Brexit bill.Commons Leader David Lidington announced that the bill will be debated by MPs on Monday, 13 March.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39217075

Conrad

CKhalvashi wrote: »

I never said people won't choose the UK.


But surely they will shun the UK, given what a nasty place this is and given your prediction we are facing economic woes.


I've seen British people having their benefits (ESA/DLA to PIP) cut when they're obviously not able to work,


And I for years have seen endemic sponging. No wonder Brits wont work for Pret A Manger.



Does every disabled person enjoy foreign holidays and Motability cars? I know many who don't.


No but your notion of this being a nasty place for the disabled is ridiculous. This is the land of benefits freeloading, of Shannon Mathews where you can be as irresponsible as you like regardless of the horrendous effects on your kids, and still be showered with bennies and a work free life


So much that is wrong with this nation is due to benefits culture and its toxic effects and it deffo is a big pull for migrants to want to take huge risks getting to Britain and passing through other not so easily duped European nations where benefits authorities are inherently more sceptical

Red today...

Moby

Fella wrote: »

Although it wasn't your intention, your post highlights a large part of the problem with EU membership: The fact that the EU isn't a static entity. It's changed beyond recognition from what the UK voted to join (the EEC) in 1973.

These were the members then. Largely a bunch of rich Western Europe countries:

Belgium
Denmark
France
Germany
Ireland
Italy
Luxembourg
Netherlands
United Kingdom


From 1973-2000 the countries below joined. Still a reasonably wealthy bunch and still very heavily a Western European organization.

Greece 1981
Portugal 1986
Spain 1986
Austria 1995
Finland 1995
Sweden 1995


Since 2000 these are the new joiners. Almost all relatively poor countries from Eastern Europe:

Czech Republic 2004
Estonia 2004
Hungary 2004
Latvia 2004
Lithuania 2004
Malta 2004
Poland 2004
Slovakia 2004
Slovenia 2004
Bulgaria 2007
Romania 2007
Croatia 2013

Organizations like the EU simply do not work when you have countries of such unequal wealth & living standards. And why on earth would a wealthy country like the UK choose to cede it's sovereignty on a range of different issues in return for a 1/27th vote in a pool of countries many of whom have interests that are very definitely not our own, and who will (quite correctly) vote for measures that favour their population & economy over ours every time?


Thus has the "EU" changed utterly since we joined, with never the slightest opportunity for anybody in the UK to vote against it. Until the referendum.


And of course the EU doesn't even stop here. Let's take a look at the countries on the waiting list:

Albania
Bosnia
Croatia
Iceland
Kosovo
Macedonia
Montenegro
Serbia
Turkey


So that's an even poorer bunch of countries, which will cause even greater problems.

Sources:
http://www.eucountrylist.com/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11283616

The problem with your assertion is that it assumes the inequality you describe will always be there. It won't! Also the whole point of assimilating the Eastern European nations was to bring them into a western democratic tradition so that they would not be such a big problem on our doorstep as they would otherwise be if say they were under Putin's influence:eek:
Look at the history of Europe and you'll see the continual wars and disputes of nation states. The EU was founded out of the biggest of those wars and to -date it has succeeded in avoiding a repeat!
Your post generally highlights the negatives and fails to acknowledge the positives. You think short term and fail to see the long term aims of the union. As I've said previously globalisation will happen anyway, whether we like it or not. Only by being part of a community would we have a say in the way it develops over the long term. By leaving we are reducing our influence on the future outcome of debates on things such as the environment, national borders, policy towards other big trading blocs etc.