If we vote for Brexit what happens

Moby

Conrad wrote: »

People want their democracy and sovereignty back, and they certainly wont sacrifice their jobs in order to punish Britain.


Next year at some point everything is going to change and you will finally smell the cofee

Your problem is you are extremely English centric. I agree people want their sovereignty back....that's why ther peoples of eastern Europe were begging to get into the EU. For them it was a bulwark against Soviet/Russian imperialism. The EU offered democracy to them! You also forget that many of us centre left socialists have been fighting for the rights of working people for many years.....well before you and the rest of the right wingers started bashing 'the liberal elite' to as a vehicle for your own anti EU rhetoric. You don't seem to have been bashing the 'elite' in this country however. The elite who cry crocodile tears for the 'working classes' and the JAM's while kitted out in their 1k leather trousers:rotfl:

Remember we chose as a nation to opt out of European politics at the end of WW2.....we could have been in there and shaped it differently....instead we left it to DeGaulle and Ardenauer etc. Huge error. We were the victors in a devastated Europe and we decided to concentrate on the 'Empire' .....thank Churchill for that. Now we have turned into little Englander fogey's, small minded, narrow and defensive. Some of us don't want to be like that. I like being European....part of a wider network....I don't feel threatened by that. I'm embarrassed when I go abroad now....because I know how the country I come from is seen and it should have been so different!

Moby

setmefree2 wrote: »

As I've said before - you have real problems with the English....

Nope.... be more precise.....the English elite .....the very same landowner decendents of the Normans etc. You're ignoring class again!

Moby

setmefree2 wrote: »

However, you seem to want to retain FM and to stay in the single market - so I'm guessing you no longer would?

Yep as I'm sure you do as a remain voter....and as Andy Burnham did a few months ago! My views are consistent!

setmefree2

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Are you REALLY going to take issue on behalf of your ancestors hundreds of years ago?

The petty grievance culture over things that never happened to you needs to stay in America please.

Yes who exactly should we hate - people from the Nordics for the Viking raids - the Anglo Saxons who were themselves invaders - after those other invaders the Romans left (should we hate modern day Italians?) - or the French for the Norman Conquest?

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

What a load of crap...Is that why they built so many castles in my home country....Wales. Those castles were built to keep the populace down mate! They weren't pretty tourist spots when they were built! Is that why in the 18th century people in Wales could be imprisoned for speaking in their native tongue. That's what makes me laugh about you Brexiteers.....you blabber on about autonomy.....taking back control etc etc.....many peoples on these islands have had to struggle against upper class English imperialism for many years .... what you accuse the EU of doing .....far worse has been done within these islands! Ask the people of Ireland!

In the 18th century most people in Wales spoke in welsh so they must have had a lot of people in prison.

We live in a democracy : if you are governed by upper class English Imperialist then it is because your fellow country people vote for them.
That may be because the Labour party is now led by some-one born with a silver spoon in his mouth, lives in a million pound house and considers that an income of over 130,000 pa doesn't make him rich and has never done a decent days work in his life. He has surrounded himself by racists, hypocratics, antisemites, people who depise the ordinary people of this country and supports anyone who hates the UK and loves dictators, homophobes, war mongers (unless westerners).

I would suggest you focus on the problems of the 21st century rather than your racist dislike of the 18th century English.

Arleen

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The only entity that can grant the UK a free trade deal with the EU, is the EU.

The EU will not do this unless we take on freedom of movement, because it will mean the end of the EU. Which will then leave everyone without a free trade deal because there will be no EU to broker it.

Why is this so hard for you Brexit people to understand?

Oh yes, because Britain is the indispensable country and they will be begging, begging us to come back under any terms. Especially so that we can sail our three destroyers and aircraft carrier without any planes around Gibraltar. Spain already loves that.

But UK doesn't grant freedom of movement now to EU citizens as it's not part of Schengen Agreement. Also you do realise that trade agreements are mutually beneficient, right? So for EU to not keep good trading terms with UK hurts them about as much as it hurts the UK. Because fo that it could only be done out of spite, or as some sort of "warning shots" to other countries who may consider exiting the EU.

And boy, people sure will want to be members of organization that turns into a jail warden who holds trade agreements as hostage. That sure builds up the union of people and spirit of working together toward some greater good.

TrickyTree83

setmefree2 wrote: »

Yes who exactly should we hate - people from the Nordics for the Viking raids - the Anglo Saxons who were themselves invaders - after those other invaders the Romans left (should we hate modern day Italians?) - or the French for the Norman Conquest?

Everyone pal, everyone.

If there's no axe to grind people will just get on with their lives, we can't have that.

I look in the mirror every morning and hate myself for being a climate change denier for boiling my kettle to make coffee with my breakfast.

CLAPTON

Arleen wrote: »

But UK doesn't grant freedom of movement now to EU citizens as it's not part of Schengen Agreement. .

you may wish to revise your undertsanding of the difference between free movmen to people and the schengen agreement

All EU citizens can move to any EU country including the UK.

The Scehengen agreement allows for movement of anyone (including non eu ) people once they have entered a Schengen country without any passport checks.

setmefree2

Moby wrote: »

Nope.... be more precise.....the English elite .....the very same landowner decendents of the Normans etc. You're ignoring class again!

You just blamed all English people for building castles in Wales - when it was the French....don't worry I won't hold my breath waiting for an apology from you for your racist attitudes - it's what us English have gotten used to...

FYI it was also the French Plantagenets who united Wales with England - when Edward 1 conquered Wales in 1284 - local Welsh Princes were disposed - I can't imagine for a minute that the Welsh Princes were any better than the Plantagenets - all rulers were pretty brutal at the time.

Arleen

CLAPTON wrote: »

you may wish to revise your undertsanding of the difference between free movmen to people and the schengen agreement

All EU citizens can move to any EU country including the UK.

The Scehengen agreement allows for movement of anyone (including non eu ) people once they have entered a Schengen country without any passport checks.

You do not have a free movement if you have to be allowed to pass a border. It's like with freedom of speech, you either are free to speak what do you want, or you don't. And you either are free to pass to any country, or you aren't. And with the UK out of Schengen you aren't free to enter or leave as you please, and the minimum restriction is to have valid documents, with circumstances which can deny you entry.
Something people participating in Schengen cannot enforce (in theory, in practice we saw what happened during migrant crisis), as they have free movement.