If we vote for Brexit what happens

Moby

antrobus wrote: »

Sad but true. It's always been the case. It's inherent in a lot of left wing ideology, borrowed from the Marxist/Leninist concept of the 'vanguard' Normally results in disappointment as the actual working class don't like being told what to do anymore than anybody else.:)

The old Marxist/Leninist chestnut again Antrobus:cool: boooooring!
No one likes being told what to do....but some of us who have power, wealth, privilege etc are able to shake off the shackles a bit more than others....some of us want to extend that benefit to others....some don't!

TrickyTree83

Moby wrote: »

You are struggling like a worm on a pin:rotfl:and totally ignored what I said above.....the Commission is answerable to the EU Parliament ....see above. You are so caught up in your bigoted pre-conceptions of the EU monster that you are failing to engage with the reality when it is given you on a plate.

Not at all, you've introduced a myriad of other points and skirted around mine. It is you who is trying to wriggle around, talking about percentages of amendments and the like.

My point is a straight forward and simple one.

Who has the power to propose to create and repeal legislation in the EU? What is the name of the body who is responsible for this power?

The EU commission?

Then tell me if the people who make up this body are directly elected by the people of the EU?

They are not.

And what does that tell you about the democratic accountability over the legislature over 28 EU member states?

It's not democratic.

StevieJ

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

So the executive is not accountable to the people nor is it elected by the people, right?

The president is elected by the representatives, unlike the US where the president is elected by the people.
.

I am not sure about that, didn't Hilary receive 2.5 million more votes than O.F?

Thrugelmir

StevieJ wrote: »

I am not sure about that, didn't Hilary receive 2.5 million more votes than O.F?

That's the electoral system though. How many votes does the President of the European Union receive?

TrickyTree83

wotsthat wrote: »

http://www.parliament.uk/business/lords/work-of-the-house-of-lords/making-laws/



I don't know how you can accuse the EU of being undemocratic whilst playing down the role of the Lords and the Queen in the legislative process.

My biggest problem with the EU is that the glorified civil servants are too prominent. We've all heard of Jean-Claude Juncker but I bet fewer would know the name of the head of the UK civil service. I don't think the head of the commission should be a politician (or ex politician).

Whether the House of Lords or the Queen like it or not they can both be dissolved should there be a will do to so in the House of Commons. The House of Lords and the Queen exist at the consent of the House of Commons.

The EU commission does not exist at the consent of the EU parliament, the EU parliament simply rubber stamp whatever the EU commission propose.

Do you not see the difference?

One is unelected bureaucrats proposing to create or repeal legislation and asking the people for consent, where the people do not have the power to dissolve the bureaucracy.

The other is the people proposing to create or repeal legislation and asking unelected bureaucrats for consent, with ultimate power to dissolve the unelected bureaucracy involved in the process (which would make us a republic).

In one the people hold the ultimate power, in the other, they are simply a voting block expressing opinion on policy.

TrickyTree83

StevieJ wrote: »

I am not sure about that, didn't Hilary receive 2.5 million more votes than O.F?

Sigh.. that's a quirk of the electoral college system, put in place to ensure urban centres do not hold sway over the entire country. The people still voted for their president in a state, and the state then votes according to the will of the people (or not if some news is to be believed, and that would make a mockery of democracy).

Rinoa

Moby wrote: »

How much love do you think the people of the North, Scotland and Wales have felt from Tory Govmts?

If they don't love the tories they should.

Old age pensions are far more generous (Ask Toastie) , very important for poor pensioners.

Minimum wage has increased far more than under Labour - and is set to rise further.

Income tax starts at £11000, not £6745.

30% more poor kids go to university than in 2010.

2,000,000 more people have jobs.

Moby

Rinoa wrote: »

If they don't love the tories they should.

Old age pensions are far more generous (Ask Toastie) , very important for poor pensioners.

Minimum wage has increased far more than under Labour - and is set to rise further.

Income tax starts at £11000, not £6745.

30% more poor kids go to university than in 2010.

2,000,000 more people have jobs.

Do you realise what state the NHS is in.....the state of Social Care, the state of so many of our local services..the lack of housing.............don't you care about these things....student debt....household debt etc. All these austerity measures have been introduced.....meanwhile the deficit has grown and is now circa 90 billion! Yep they should be ecstatic!:j.............and by the way immigration keeps on growing....what happened to that promise I wonder. You'd slam Labour with that record but the tories get away with it.:mad:

gfplux

setmefree2 wrote: »

It means that this is the first stepping stone. However, once outside the EU the UK would be free to pursue whatever tariff model it wants. Don't forget tariffs in WTO schedules are maximums - the minimum being zero. The UK could lower a particular import tariff or eliminate import quotas as it wishes
(not before analyzing the effects on say British farmers).

Changes could be implemented reasonably rapidly.

Your optimistic view of "Government" analysing anything is sweet.

gfplux

setmefree2 wrote: »

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-08/mcdonald-s-moves-tax-base-to-u-k-amid-eu-attack-on-burger-giant

It looks big news but let's not get carried away.

No time frame mentioned
Negotiating position to "lean" on the EU
In 2017/2018 all international Global Company's will have to declare (at the moment privately) to tax authority's their licence income by Country and then pay tax to each country.
Sadly no big financial gain to the UK.
But good publicity and when they do move Britain will gain a few jobs

So good news for Britain.